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bergland

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Reply with quote  #1 
It will be a very interesting voyage of discovery to unpack the needs of the "worldwide" touchstyle community. If this can happen in an authentic and genuine way, without cohersion, ideology, individual agendas, or anything which derails learning and growth, we will be in possession of an amazing musical vision. I am really convinced that the act of touchstyle playing can sponsor such an experience.

Don

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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #2 
The touchstyle community's vision is for more than 250 people to view a thread and post nothing in response.

I feel the forum could use some more real estate on the web to attract more users. It's not up in front the way I thought something like this would be. Usually with a unique word-something like "colotomic rhythm" for example- you'll have near zero competition when people do a search for it. Maybe people who might like this forum only do a search for warr, megatar, stick, or box guitar but never  warr forum or some such, so they don't find this place.

The ztar's website's forum is not functional too, but there's got to be a lot of people who might enjoy hanging out together talking about that instrument as well. But it's not represented here or on the Stick forum either out of the thousands of people who bought one. It's definitely a tapping instrument.

These kinds of communities need each other. This forum is a great idea but somehow, something is being derailed.

All these instrument sites should be promoting this site. If not, seems like a lost opportunity to me. The modern web doesn't work the way conservative business men imagine where if this place has "competitors" info on it, then it will harm their business. That's clearly not true. If someone gets the instrument that fits them best, they won't post negative comments about how it didn't meet their needs. They can't get the best fit for them that if they don't know other options exist. A competitor's promotional campaign benefits their own company. More people will hear about what a great, unselfish, community the tappers are and will tell their friends to come and meet new, excellent people. Guitar sales fall. Tapping sales rise overall globally because of COOPERATVE effort.

Another issue is that many players might have loyalty to a musical style and be on a rock guitar forum with their warr or megatar. Different issue, same effect. They're there and not here.


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bergland

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Reply with quote  #3 
Tatsu:

Welcome to the forum. You have provided some excellent comments and I'm now sitting back trying to process them. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsu
I feel the forum could use some more real estate on the web to attract more users.

I definitely agree that Tappistry needs to attract more users. When this forum started, I and some of the other moderators contacted many prominent touchstyle players. Very few responded by joining. I also went out to a number of guitar forums and posted advertisements for Tappistry. We did post an invitation on Stickist, but sadly, that invitation was administratively deleted. Have you any other ideas about how we should use website real estate to attract more users? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsu
It's not up in front the way I thought something like this would be. Maybe people who might like this forum only do a search for warr, megatar, stick, or box guitar but never  warr forum or some such, so they don't find this place.

I'm not sure how the keywords were set up at this site, but it is definitely something that needs to be considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsu
The ztar's website's forum is not functional too, but there's got to be a lot of people who might enjoy hanging out together talking about that instrument as well. But it's not represented here or on the Stick forum either out of the thousands of people who bought one. It's definitely a tapping instrument.
 
This is my first introduction to the Ztar! As you know, Tappistry is promoting itself as a place where all such instruments are freely discussed. I'm sure that your presence here at Tappistry will now launch some discussion about this instrument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsu
All these instrument sites should be promoting this site. If not, seems like a lost opportunity to me.
 
Aside from posting a Tappistry invitation on these instrument sites, do you have any ideas about how this kind of inter-site promotion should occur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsu
Another issue is that many players might have loyalty to a musical style and be on a rock guitar forum with their warr or megatar. Different issue, same effect. They're there and not here.

When one examines the major touchstyle players in the world today, one can easily imagine that the population of users is huge. I agree with your general sentiment. How do we attract these users to become members of Tappistry?

Don


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- Warr Guitar, Artist 12-String with MIDI
- Chapman Stick, Grand, Satine, Classic
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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #4 
I looked at your keywords and your site doesn't contain the word forum. Only in your tags. More to say but on a little handphone interface currently.
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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #5 
When trying to do a search for this site in order to find it again, we get bombarded with all kinds of sites that analyze your site's keywords which is really strange. You're not even in the first three Google pages. I had to find one of those sites that contained a link to this site in order to come back here and that was after searching a lot for that. Doing a search for a misspelling like tapistry.org not tappistry.org dearails into that kind of quagmire. NOT GOOD.

As far as promoting this site better, I put a post on Stickist a while back concerning net promotion and couldn't find it. Administratively deleted? It was more detailed than this is going to be. Basically, if you go to the sites where they let you post your writing like Associated Content and others, then post a bunch of relevant articles/whatnot which link here plus link to all your other sites (which you should have and I'll explain which kinds) then that will drive traffic here. That kind of thing is the ONLY way to drive relevant traffic.

So besides writing sites, you should be on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Soundclick/Soundcloud, and a blog. Content there should be relevant and free. All your sites should link to all your other sites. Doing blogs well is hard, and time consuming so needs to be researched.

Podcasts are also possible but not mission critical.

Email is important too. Every one should have links to all your other sites and you should have a mailing list especially to all those people whose attention you want so they can see every two weeks some professional, relevant content that their customer base is also going to see and care about. There should be a way to opt into your mailing list/newsletter from every email you send, from this forum, from your Facebook page, blah, blah blah.

Your forum post's signature also should have links to ALL your content pages.

Don't forget snail mail and telephone. Put them with your email everywhere you have content even in your forum signature.

In any event, you should link to other sites like Stickist, the Warr page, the Megatar page, the Ztar page, Ziggy, and Krappy (and any other relevant PLAYER's pages etc...) and ask them to link back to you. They may all decline. No worries. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Anyway, if you leave your links to them up, and they start getting traffic to their page from you, they may finally link back to you as a courtesy after a few months/years if they're keeping track of that kind of thing, but many may not be. If you follow my advice about posting free relevant content on Facebook, Associated Content and everywhere, you will drive directed traffic here and to Warr and Megatar. They should notice. People will even tell them that's how they found them.

Invite people like Emmett or Stanley Jordan, and Joe Warr Guitarist to be a guest blogger on your blog.

Another idea is to talk to these instrument makers who do not have a forum yet and tell them you'll handle all their forum duties for them right here on Tappistry. They're crazy to not have a forum. They would definitely benefit from you doing that for them if they'll put a prominent link to here from their main page.

The problem might be they'll think people will write something bad about their gear here and it will be in print larger than life, and they have to look at it and think about it. Explain to them people are going to do that anyway and are already doing that on the rock guitar forums and elsewhere. Not having a forum doesn't protect them and actually causes them to take a lot more emails and calls themselves for customer service issues that have to be dealt with anyway. Ask them why not farm that out to existing users and yourself so they rarely if ever have to do it anymore. It's similar to the way Greg Howard helps people understand tuning possibilities and amp selection at Stickist. Those non-sales questions are a huge burden that makers grow to resent spending their time on. That will make them think seriously about using this forum if there are knowledgeable people here about their products that will volunteer their skills.

Did Stanley and Emmett and Mr. Warr write articles on Associated Content or elsewhere? Link to those from here and everywhere you have content. Do they have Facebook pages and Youtube channels? Link to those from here and everywhere you have content. Do they have soundclick, a blog, or a podcast...linky, linky, linky.

Those Rock, Metal, Progrock forums where Megatar and Warr users currently hang out might need you to join and start posting with a signature to all your awesome free content and this forum so they can stop wasting their time talking to ignorant, junior high school guitarists and start rubbing elbows with pros. Even PM people and invite them here but make sure you invite them to a specific page here that has something they care to know about.

You can also start your own Google and Yahoo Groups as well as join others related to touchstyle.

It's a lot of work but the only way to get noticed the right way. I just wonder what you're getting out of it.
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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #6 

One of the things you could be doing to make money yourself with this level of promotion that I'm recommending is for you to sell your own tapstyle CDs.

I think one of the issues preventing the spread of the tapping instrument meme is all the people trying to make money from their instructional books instead of just giving that away for free. I think some people on Stickist didn't like me providing all that free stuff, cause then players didn't need to be looking for books, lessons or videos to buy. That said, you could also make an instructional book/ebook for sale, or a video course and that would make it more worth your while to be doing all the promotion I'm recommending.

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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #7 
You also could get people from the Tappistry community to assist you in dong all the little tasks I talked about above so it doesn't all fall on your shoulders. I was thinking I could offer all the posts I ever made on Stickist and allow you to use the ones you like for blog content.

After sending out a few related blog posts and forum posts, combine the content together and post on Associated content. That way there's no content for you to create because I've created all of it for you already.

Lastly, if you're going to do that, improve the content I'm giving you by using image/.jpg files, audio/.mp3 files, video, and even Google Earth and Google Maps. I've made lots of documents that are just poorly thrown together photos of my notebook. It should be more professional than that. One reason for doing video, images and .mp3 is because people with slow connections can't watch video. It won't stream. But they can still see the examples in your blog by way of charts, graphs and sound examples. Actually, I think you could make a decent amount of money through Associated Content with what I've posted on my Music Composition and related threads. If you do, maybe you could throw some my way.

Another thing that came to my mind was that if you approach difficult conservative business people who might object to what you're doing here, you might get someone with experience doing internet sales to do it for you, they have experience in overcoming objections in the heat of battle. Another idea is have someone experienced creating ad copy to create the wording for the emails you're going to send out. Maybe there are copy writers and experienced sales persons already right here on Tappistry who would create the wording FOR you and even mail them out.
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Jtmart

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Reply with quote  #8 
I think one way to increase membership would be to have more activity in the way of participation and discussion. I log on a couple times a day and usually see little to no activity. Some of the latest threads are days or weeks old and most threads have only a couple comments. I always check the active users and it's usually me and 1-3 guests. If the guests see very little activity they are likely to move on. I would comment and post more but I don't want to see that I am the only one participating. I think if the mods would post more and actively comment on member threads it would increase members and move toward your stated goal.

"If this can happen in an authentic and genuine way, without cohersion, ideology, individual agendas, or anything which derails learning and growth, we will be in possession of an amazing musical vision."

If you market tappistry like the newest iPhone it will be none of the things that you mention in your vision. If you want true, organic learning and growth an active forum will help get you there.

I'm on several other forums from citterns/bouzouki to DIY effects pedals and the ones that have high membership and a great exchange of ideas are the DIY effects. These guys are not guarding their secrets or trying to market their consumers, they just love their hobby-profession and enjoy sharing what they know and understand. They also realize that if they give knowledge away theirs is not depleted and the other's is increased. That's the great thing about knowledge, it only increase the more you give away!

I'm not an expert on any of the topics of the forums I'm on (although I have great interest in learning and sharing what I do know) but the more angles you view a subject from the more understanding you gain and everyone benefits. Encourage the mods to post and comment more often, increase activity by participating on a regular basis and I believe the results will be positive.

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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Jtmart,

Glad you see things that way.

It's definitely useful to know which forums people use. I just did a search on all the important recording forums for megatar and Warr in order to see if I could help dig up some folks and only pulled up two names, so although there may be instrument owners there, it's not part of their identity when they post.

Definitely a passion and a desire to share knowledge freely is the way to go as you said.

If posting articles, videos, educational materials on Associated Content, YouTube, Facebook etc.. is only intended to selfishly gather eyes onto oneself and not out of a love for music, even the dumbest of the dumb can easily see that. Really. No kidding. If it comes from a real desire to make friends or at least help people that comes across just as clearly.

Of course it's just as honest to say that you're interested in making money if that's the case. Everyone will believe it too so no one can call you insincere but it aint only about that or even mostly about that.

Freely helping others always pays dividends and on the internet it's about the only thing that pays any dividends at all, but getting dividends can't be the reason why we do it.

Seeing other people get what they need is satisfaction enough.
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bergland

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Reply with quote  #10 
Tatsu:

You have posted a voluminous amount of very interesting information. It is going to take me weeks to unpack it properly. I will have to admit, however, that my ability or capacity for taking on even a fraction of this work is impossible. So, we'll have to see what I can extract from the volumes you've provided that I'm capable of doing. I certainly appreciate the time and effort you've spent in providing such a detailed list.

Don


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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #11 
Farm out the work to your 'street team.'
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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #12 
So who wants to be the manager of the Tappistry Facebook posts?

Anyone want to manage the Tappistry Youtube Channel?

Will someone volunteer to be in charge of sending out the Twitter tweets?

Who wants to be the manager of the Tappistry Soundclick audio files?


Those are the easiest content sites to tackle.
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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #13 
If there's someone who is more knowledgeable about the events in the tapping community, that's the most valuable player. Who's who. Where the concerts are. What kind of music is being played. Every time a tapper farts in his garage is breaking news (exaggerating, but only a little) and needs at least a comment about it put everywhere. So and so just had their first gig. Such and such just released their latest album. There's a new 13 string megatar. Whatever. If someone might find it interesting, it's relevant and will entertain us. We like that cause we're BORED!!! Please make us feel excitement or at least make us feel SOMETHING. A smooth talking net radio show can be Prozac for the weary soul. Massage my brain? Yes, thank you.
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Explorer

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Reply with quote  #14 
A little late to the party, but reaching out to other tappers like Adam Fulara, Bill Burke and Matthew McGhee would bring a concentration of information to the guitar tapping section that I don't think is currently offered anywhere else.
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Tatsu

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Reply with quote  #15 
You're not late. This forum moves a bit slow. If you know someone influential with them, maybe they could invite them.
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