Yes, another do it yourselfer

[Gustin]

Alright, I'm a 16 year old that's been very interested in tapping for a few months now. The only problem is that it's hard to come up with a couple thousand to buy a new or used instrument. So, I think I've decided to build my own.

I've never touched a tapping instrument before, so I'm a complete newbie. I'm gonna need a lot of help from you guys on this.

I'm probably gonna build a ten or twelve stringer. Twelve makes more sense, because I imagine it would be easier to buy things in two pairs of sixes than in five or something (that and I know mobius sells 12 string tuning machines and 12 string bridges).

I'll probably use a warr guitar style design (like Brenda) with two pickups (one for the melody side and one for the bass side). I'll probably go with cheap pickups at first, and then upgrade when I have the cash.

As for a budget, I can't really tell you right now... my birthday's in less than a week, and I'm expecting to get quite a bit of money from that for this project.

What tools are absolutely necessary for making a guitar?

What would be a good wood, but on the cheap side?

I'd probably buy the fretboard from allen guitar, so I won't have to deal with calculating the frets myself. What would be a good length/number of frets?

Any other comments or suggestions? I really need all the help I can get!

[traktor]

Originally posted by Gustin
...I imagine it would be easier to buy things in two pairs of sixes than in five or something (that and I know mobius sells 12 string tuning machines and 12 string bridges). Step One -- Get catalogs from Stewart-McDonald, Luthier's Mercantile, Allied Luthiers, and AllParts. Yes, Mobius sells some specialty parts, but it's a big universe of parts. There is another thread somewhere on this forum, and some other suppliers may be mentioned. (Search these names and find the thread would probably work.)

Step Two -- Buy a book, if you're the kind of guy who would do research by buying a book. Although there may be enough info available on the internet to do the job, and Brenda's thread here is absolutely brilliant.

Step Three -- Cast around and see if there's a luthier's club/group/association anywhere near. And/or look for guitar builders and go meet them. You'll find brothers in arms. The single most helpful thing I did was meeting Bruce Sexauer, and then later Ralph Novak, Mike Tobias, Todd Brotherton, and others. Existing guitar builders, even amateurs, are a wealth of information. And you can always offer to help them with this and that in return for the advice, suggestions, and sometimes demonstrations which they can provide for you.
.... my birthday's in less than a week, and I'm expecting to get quite a bit of money from that for this project. Where should we send the money? [joke]

Would your parents like to adopt an additional son? I'm only 62, housebroken, and don't know everything any more. [joke?]

[rjgoos]

www.buildyourguitar.com is a very useful site.

There is no logical reason to build a tapping instrument, by the time you invest in tools and materials and time, and gain enough experience to build a good one, you have certainly spent as much as buying one.

But then again, there is no logical reason for doing most of the things people enjoy doing the most. Stamp collecting, bird watching, fishing, hunting, snowboarding...none of these activities make the slightest economic sense. Wood and metal working is a great skill and a satisfying hobby. Stringing up a home-made instrument for the first time, and having it sing to you...it is a wonderful thrill.

Don't build a tapper to save money. Do it for the fun of designing something, and having it appear out of raw materials.


Jay

[BigDaddyPoo]

Traktor is right, get a book, look online.

http://www.mimf.com// has a wealth of information.

there are some great books out there. I actually instead of buying a book bought a CD from http://www.buildyourguitar.com/
The CD comes with a full ebook that describes all of the tools needed, electronics, construction etc. It also has an interactive section that includes some really great videos that actually show the construction process.

Knowing someone with a wood shop, like a cabinet maker helps alot. You have access to some of the more expensive tools like a planer, joiner, and saws. Plus, these guys usually have scrap wood laying around that you can, if not use in your guitar, atleast use to practice your wood working skills on.

I just helped a friend clean up his shop in exchange for tons of maple, walnut, and mahagony as well as some time on his machinery.

[Gustin]

I just found out a couple days ago that my mom has an old friend that builds bass guitars. I'm planning on meeting up with him sometime to talk about this kind of stuff.

Traktor, I've already got the Stewart McDonald catalog, and I plan on ordering one from Luthier's Mercantile in a minute.

Do you have any suggestions for books?


I've been interested in building my own instrument for a while. I was planning on building a second electric guitar until I found this site. I saw all the builders on here, and I loved all the information. I soon changed my mind and I figured if I couldn't get a real tapper from a main supplier, then why not build one myself? I know my first instrument will probably not be all that great, but I'm hoping I come out with something at least playable. Building something from scratch seems like it would be a lot of fun, so I'm hoping I can at the very least get some entertainment and knowledge out of it. :)

I will probably go with cheap parts for the first time around and then upgrade the parts later as I get the money or something.

[BrendaEM]

Before I started making my instrument, I found a lot of webpages of people who were making guitars and basses. Most tapping instruments are more like a bass than a lot of the Strat or Jem copies so many people are making, but that doesn't mean that there isn't anything to be learned from checking out guitar projects.

Maple is a good wood for a neck. It's hard, but it usually does what you want it to. Try to get quartersawn if you can.

(IMHO) There is a great variety of woods you can use for the body, though soft woods are much harder to work with than hardwoods because they are more fragile. The weight and stiffness will affect the tone a little, the color probably won't : )

For the body the stability doesn't matter as much.

I would avoid some of the exotics because they are rumored to be hard to glue, and others like padauk because a lot of people are allergic to them.

Alder is a nice body wood, and it's hard enough to work with. Swamp ash is light as well.

Mahogony and walnut are nice woods too, but a little heavier than alder and swamp ash. Mahagony is a little more stable than walnut, but they are both are near the same weight.

Cherry and maple are similar in weight, but maple is a bit more stable and hard.

Boxwood and poplar are both soft. Poplar has ugly greenstreaks in it, and boxwood is very bland. Some Ibanezes are made of boxwood, and so are Parker-Flys. It's usually painted. Because it's soft, it would be a bother to work with, and probly should be finished.

There is cheap wood as in species, but there is also cheap wood where you find it. As long as it's free from nails, you might find good scrap wood, as that would be good to use.

Unfortunaly, most houses are made of douglass fir, which cracks too easy to be useful. Also, most of the wood at a Home Depot is douglass fir.

[My friend happened upon a cherry tree, and cut it up and dried it for a year. He has made a lot of cherry stuff.]

For tools, you need patients and persistance--just kidding. Anyway, having a computer is a great tool becasue you can draw, and redraw a plan indefinatly. You could possibly make an instrument with just hand tools, but it would be hard. In my project thread, I mentioned which tools I used, so I don't have to pollute this thread with reduntant information. Though, try to borrow, or better yet, find people to farm out things. In the SF Bay area, there is a new place where people can go to use woodworking equipment. You are under 18, so you probabaly would have go with a parent or gaurdian.

This would make a good father-son project, or nephew and aunt or uncle, or any other parent or gaurdian you might have hanging around, doing nothing.

[Please be careful, as you have a lot of years to live. I think that a little hearing loss is too high a price for a nice instrument. While I am working, I always wear eye protection, and keep my hands away from anything that may cut them.]

[rjgoos]

Originally posted by BrendaEM

[Please be careful, as you have a lot of years to live. I think that a little hearing loss is too high a price for a nice instrument. While I am working, I always wear eye protection, and keep my hands away from anything that may cut them.]


Indeed! As fellow member Krappy (Kevin) says on his web site, "Safety First Bucko!!"

http://krappyguitars.com/ourshop.html



Jay

[Gustin]

Yeah, I'm one of those anal safety concious people. On top of that I really value my hearing. My first trip to Home Depot to get tools and such will definitely involve eye protection and some kind of ear portection.

Thanks for that info on the different types of wood. Out of everything, I think I needed that the most. I've been trying to figure out what types of wood would be good, but none of the websites I saw really talked about how easy the woods were to work with.

I've purchased two books on guitar/bass building. I've also been doing a lot of research on the web (mostly from the links you posted in another thread).

As for the father/son thing, I doubt it would happen. :p My dad hates doing repairs and this kind of stuff. He may be of some help during the design/planning stages though.

As I said in my last post, my mom has the number of a friend of hers that now builds bass guitars. She's going to give him a call and see if he can show me around/help me/let me use his stuff and whatnot.

[Gustin]

Alright, so I've bought two books and read three them both. I bought Melvyn Hiscock's and the one that was mentioned in this thread. Some very good stuff.

I've started drawing my tapper. It's going to be similar to the Trey Gunn style Warr Guitar. I like the idea of the bridge being more central on the body; it makes perfect sense. I don't think I'll tilt the headstock back quite as much as Trey Gunn does, probably more like a 10 or 12 degree tilt. It will be a 34" scale length.

I'm still debating on the number of strings. 8 seems logical (and easiest), but I'm worried about running out of strings. After doing some tapping on one of my guitars I noticed my left hand is much better at tapping chords while my right hand taps melodies much easier. The problem I have is that my hand seem to always get in the way of each other, so I'm leaning towards an uncrossed tuning arrangement.

I'm going to do a bolt on neck. This way if I screw up on one part, the other part is still usable without difficulty.

I'm attaching a picture of my rough shape. The length is measured correctly (for a 34" scale length), but I'm not sure about the width. How wide does the fretboard/neck need to be for say an 8 string at a "normal" string spacing?

Another thing I haven't figured out is what I'm going to do for pickups. I'm thinking that I'll go with some cheap pickups at first (like some from stewmac.com or even wind my own) and then get some bartolini's later when my budget allows.

The good news is I just got a job. I only have a few bills to pay (car insurance and phone), so every month at least half of my paychecks (usually even more) can go into this project. I figure the money I have right now (300 to 400) should be enough to get a decent start on this.

Comments/questions/suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

[BrendaEM]

Be sure to allow some room at the edges of the strings. It would beasy to forget.

If you print your design in sections make sure they are in scale. My printer will print on sheet to scale, but I run an error when sectioning pages together.

Other than that, it's all about the mockups : )

[BigDaddyPoo]

I would recomend going to the local guitar shop with a caliper or acurate ruler and feeling the different string spacings to see what you like. Get measurements off your favorites and base your neck width on the string spacing. Add up the string spacings (don't forget there are only 7 spaces for an eight string guitar) and like Brenda said, don't forget to add a little space above the top sting and below the bottom string other wise your strings will fall off the edge of the fretboard when you tap.

[Gustin]

That's a great idea! Thanks. I may even do that today if I have the time.

[Gustin]

I found this 8 string bridge. I'm wondering if it'll work.

http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=176

I emailed the maker about a bridge that allowed for seperate placement, but this seems much more logical (and cheaper... cheaper is always good). I just sent him a reply and asked about this bridge as well. We'll see.

[BigDaddyPoo]

Let me know if you get a reply. I emailed them about two months ago about the triple lock down bridge and never got a response.

[Gustin]

Yeah, I just got a reply today about the tripple lock down bridge. I sent my email around a week or two ago, but got an automatic reply saying that he was on vacation until today. He seemed pretty nice and helpful. I'd try sending another email.

[Gustin]

Well, I haven't heard back from hipshot yet. I wasn't able to get to the music store to check string spacing yet unfortunately. Hopefully, I will later today.

I changed my design a little bit, and I need to figure out a headstock.

I think I'm going to go with the warr guitar style way of support (just the two strap buttons on the side).

I think I'm gonna go with a maple neck. It's cheaper than other suitable neck woods and it's just as good. I want to use something with a bit of a deaper tone as the main body wood though. Something like mahogany, but it tends to be a bit expensive. I may add a figured maple on the top too. Not sure about that. I've got very wide shoulders and a good back, so weight isn't really a big concern for me, tone is. I like something with a bit more of a lower end.

My guitar has a mahogany neck and a mahogany body with a figured maple top, so my tapper (assuming I can get all the woods) would have similar properties. I also have a cheap Squier that has a maple neck, and I really like the feel of it. I'm basically taking what I like from my guitars and putting them in this guitar.

[BrendaEM]

As far as I know, on a Warr, only one strap button is on the side, the other is on the back.

Maple is a great neck wood. Mohagany is a good body wood, but it does have large pores that are usually filled.

[BigDaddyPoo]

In my very limited experience shaping woods, maple is a lot easier to control. It works beautifully and predictably under a spoke shave. I also worked with jatoba and Mahogony. The maple was many times easier to work with than the other two.

[Gustin]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
As far as I know, on a Warr, only one strap button is on the side, the other is on the back.

Maple is a great neck wood. Mohagany is a good body wood, but it does have large pores that are usually filled.

Yeah, that's what I meant (one on the side and one on the back of the other horn).

In my very limited experience shaping woods, maple is a lot easier to control. It works beautifully and predictably under a spoke shave. I also worked with jatoba and Mahogony. The maple was many times easier to work with than the other two.

What would you recomend as a good wood that would give me more of a low end though? I like the feel of maple, but I want the body to give me a deeper tone.

[traktor]

Originally posted by Gustin
What would you recomend as a good wood that would give me more of a low end though? I like the feel of maple, but I want the body to give me a deeper tone. I'm no wood guru, but in general darker wood gives darker sound.

[Gustin]

I'm playing with the idea of changing my design to a 36 inch. Not sure. It would allow the strings to vibrate more and give it a fuller sound. Plus I could add a few more frets to squeeze a few more notes out of it :).

I also changed the design slightly. I decided to not go with a tapered neck, and I fixed the neck to have a string spacing of 10mm. I'm not sure if I'm going to go with that (probably not), but I just wanted to have it at least somewhat measured out accurately.

[rjgoos]

Only tangentally related to the question of 34 vs 36-inch scale length....do you think you want to build just one instrument, to hit the home run on your first time at bat, or do you see this as a process where it might take your best effort on two or three instruments to finally get what you want?


Jay

[Gustin]

Originally posted by rjgoos
Only tangentally related to the question of 34 vs 36-inch scale length....do you think you want to build just one instrument, to hit the home run on your first time at bat, or do you see this as a process where it might take your best effort on two or three instruments to finally get what you want?


Jay

I'm not planning on doing several prototypes like you did. I'm planning on this instrument being around for awhile. I'm not expecting this to be perfect. I realize that for a first instrument, expecting that is a huge stretch, however I plan on aiming as close as I can get to it.

[BrendaEM]

I've noticed that I can find unwrapped guitar strings that are long enough for a 34" scale, but for 36", I would check to see what you can find where.

I am using 10mm string spacing on the nut, and 12mm on the bridge. I am using a wide spacing because I play uncrossed. If I do another instrument I might try 9mm at the nut for a lighter instrument.

In the end, build what you want. Because you posted in the forum, it gives us archchair builders something to discuss : )

[Gustin]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
I've noticed that I can find unwrapped guitar strings that are long enough for a 34" scale, but for 36", I would check to see what you can find where.

I am using 10mm string spacing on the nut, and 12mm on the bridge. I am using a wide spacing because I play uncrossed. If I do another instrument I might try 9mm at the nut for a lighter instrument.

In the end, build what you want. Because you posted in the forum, it gives us archchair builders something to discuss : )

The string issue was my main concern about changing the design to 36". I plan on using locking tuners, so they just have to be long enough to reach the tuner. I'm still very undecided on the 36" length. I like the idea of getting a little more vibration and fuller sound out of the extra couple inches.

Like I said, the design is still not set (I feel like something changes almost every day). I'm still trying to figure out a decent headstock design currently.

10mm is the spacing on my guitars and I'm pretty comfortable with that. I have a friends bass that I play from time to time, and its spacing is very comfortable. I need to find out what his is.

I'm planning on doing uncrossed in fourths like you are doing on your instrument.

[BigDaddyPoo]

Originally posted by Gustin
What would you recomend as a good wood that would give me more of a low end though? I like the feel of maple, but I want the body to give me a deeper tone.

If you plan to get anything out of a body tone, don't use a neckthrough design. The body wings will have little if any effect on tone. You would need to do a set neck or a bolt on.

I think Traktor was pretty accurate in saying that the darker woods have a darker tone, however there are exceptions like ebony and bubinga... Not that anyone in their right mind would build a body out of ebony...

I personally would stay away from 36" scale lengths it's hard enough to get good tone out of higher strings on a 34" scale. I have to admit you do get much nicer bass sound though. Then there's the issue with finding strings long enough.

[Gustin]

I'm already planning on a bolt on neck. This way if I screw up anything beyond repair, I (hopefully) only loose either the neck or body, not both.

[Gustin]

I found a body blank and a neck blank that I like on ebay. They both look very straight grained and will fit my design dimensions very nicely.

This will save me the trouble of buying all the wood, planing, and gluing. Instead, with this I'll be able to start cutting soon. :)

[Gustin]

I still have my eye on some wood, and hope to buy it sometime this week.

I'm considering changing my design to a 10 string. I think this may make buying a bridge a bit easier (I could buy two 5 string bass bridges). I'd have to double my pickups though. However, I would be able to wire it so I could process the melody and bass side seperately if I wanted to.

Just a brief update I guess.

[Gustin]

Unfortunately, my build's been put on hold for a while (hence the lack of updates). I bought a laptop with the money I had saved up. I figured I'd get more use out of the laptop than the tapper. I still plan on doing this, it'll just be a bit longer until I get around to it (probably late this year, begining of next year).