8 string guitar vs. double neck

[tomsturges]

i am thinking about buying a guitar from rek guitars and i cant quite decide if i want an 8 string or a double neck (two guitar range necks) when i contacted the guys they said that a double neck was a great advantage for classical however im more looking to play jazz, i really can't decide. Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!

[billbowen]

it depends a lot on what you wish to do. 8 strings one one neck is great if you only want to tap sometimes, as it is less complex. but it is much more difficult to play 2 voices (say chords and melody) when you only have one region to work with. it is also more difficult to improvise 2 voices on one region. however, i find it easier to improvise one voice (like a single note line) on one region. of course, with a double neck, you could always just use both hands on one neck when that is easier! or you could get a double 8 string neck! on my 8-string (which is currently undergoing experimental tuning mayhem) the tuning i like is straight 4ths, but upside down. it takes a little getting used to, and some left hand fingering has to be re-learned. the advantage is that i can play bass with my left hand and chords/lead with my right without my hands getting in the way of each other (uncrossed).

[rjgoos]

An 8-string (like an 8-string Warr or ADG, or Stick Bass or NS-Stick) is a different animal than a double-neck REK. I think that fantastic music could be made with either.

The REK is, obviously, like having two guitars. You have no doubt seen Adam Fulara's site, and seen the magic he works with it.

I would see Bill Burke's site for the music that one can make with an 8-stringer.

It's all good. Do you need to play bass parts? That would be the big question that I would ask.


Jay

[tomsturges]

many thanks to rjgoos and billbowen, people like u r stars in helping newcomers like me. cheers for replying!

anyway to go into more depth im not really that bothered about bass lines (although it cud b good) im more looking for a stanely jordan approach but im finding that 6 strings just isn't enough for me. i spose really im answering my own question here arent I, double neck probably is the way to go (i spose lol). Its just that a double neck cost £1100!!! and a 8 string £850.

Also if anybody has had any experience with rek guitars it'd be great for some feedback on what they're like especially if you've played a rek double neck.

Cheers!
Tom

[GaryOpenhill]

Originally posted by billbowen
on my 8-string (which is currently undergoing experimental tuning mayhem) the tuning i like is straight 4ths, but upside down. it takes a little getting used to, and some left hand fingering has to be re-learned. the advantage is that i can play bass with my left hand and chords/lead with my right without my hands getting in the way of each other (uncrossed).

Hey, another inverted player. Cool.

[rjgoos]

I forgot to mention, if you are interested in a double-guitar sort of arrangement, that the Megatar is available in that configuration in a longer scale, as well as Stu Box's new line of instruments, in a shorter scale. The REK looks pretty cool, too.

Just a thought.


Jay

[Adam Fulara]

8 string is like a bass guitar (extended for tapping), my doublenecked guitar it's like guitar (extended for tapping). Do you prefer bass or guitar sound?

Long measure instruments have poor treble sound ability while short measure instruments have poor bass.

If you prefer guitar sound REK guitars are simplest extension of usual guitar for tapping. The same tunning, strings, pickups, hardware as until usual guitar playing, so you don't have to learn from beggining, lower neck could be usual guitar too, so you can easy play in standard guitar mode (with pluck) on it.

You have to ask yourself what for do you need this instrument.

I play with bass player always.

[BrendaEM]

Long measure instruments have poor treble sound ability while short measure instruments have poor bass.

If you have more than one string, you can decide the scale length by choosing a string and fret that you like.

Bass too muddy? Choose a thicker string, at a lower fret.
No treble? Choose a thinner string at a higer fret.

To some degree, choosing a scale length is to choose where the middle is.

[Generally, I play diagonally across the fretboard, from low on the low strings, to high on the high strings. Generally, I also tune my guitar on the frets and strings along this diagonal line.]

[rockola]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
If you have more than one string, you can decide the scale length by choosing a string and fret that you like.Not really. If you have a 25" scale instrument, you won't be able to get the bass sound of a 34" scale instrument, no matter what.

[BrendaEM]

A 34 inch scaled instrument can go down about four notes lower than a 25.5 inch scaled instument. It's intonation may be a little better because it might be a few cents more accurate, but....

A bass note played high on 34" might not sound as good as a string played low on a 25.5.

Likewise....

A high note played low on a 25.5 might not sound as good as high note played high on a 34"

It's not always only the instrument, but how and where the note is played. Within the context that one instrument might be able to higher or lower than the other, the player has some control over the timbre and sustain.

The frets on a 25.5, can just about line up with those corresponding frets on a 34. If you are stopping a note on a 34" scaled instument 25.5 inches from the bridge, what's it matter to the sound?

[All things the similar, I believe that there is only one change: the longer strings weigh more, and they might hit the fret a little harder if they were moving the same as the shorter strings, but it might take more energy to get them going in the first place.]

[billbowen]

25.5 is almost exactly the same as the 5th fret of 34". i use the E on the 5th fret of the low B string far more often than the open E. i use the F at the 6th fret and the F# at the seventh about 50/50. and from the G on up i use the E string much more than the B. i think this has to do a little more with the limitations of the thick string more than anything else though, because i use the E string up to about the 17th fret and the rest of the strings all the way up. thin strings seem to sound better higher up the neck. the other limit though is really thin strings. i can get all the bass i need, but i can't get strings thin enough to get as high as i want at bass scale lengths. and the overall limit seems to be about 9 strings (in 4ths) i.e. low bass B to high eb (just below guitar e). hence something like wolfgang daiss/siggi's 17 string, that covers 9 4ths in either direction from a central B string. which i suppose oughta be enough for anyone.

[tomsturges]

so... as i didn't completely follow that...

if im trying to decide between a megatar (which i guess is long scale) tuned similary to a double neck guitar, or an actual double neck, a double neck would be better because it has better treble and thats all im having, treble notes. Is that right?

Oh and also how good really is the fienten (think i spelt it wrong) system?

[traktor]

It's certainly good to ask people about the Feiten system, though of course the best thing is to hear it yourself.

Most non-musicians can hear when something is 3 cents out of tune. Most musicians can hear 2 cents or better. Most studio musicians can hear about 1 cent.

I'm generalizing, but the point is, the better your (musical) ears, the better you hear. And this kind of means that, the longer you play music and you listen, the more sensitive you become to how 'in tune' the music sounds.

So this means that it's also good to ask long-term pro musicians known to have very good (musical) ears. You can discover what some 200+ of these musicians think about Feiten's system here --

http://buzzfeiten.com/Page10084/page10084.html

(This list of musicians includes Robben Ford, Steve Vai, Larry Carlton, Adrien Belew, Liona Boyd, Stu Hamm, Jimmy Haslip, Lyle Workman, plus another 200+ guitarists, bass players, and guitar builders.)

The Feiten System has also been extensively covered by music magazines, for example, the magazines listed here --
http://buzzfeiten.com/Reviews/reviews.html

(This list includes Guitar Player magazine, Bass Player, Guitar World, Acoustic Guitar magazine, 20th Century Guiitar, Music magazine, Guitar World, and Guitar Shop magazine.)

And of course, taking the opposite viewpoint as well, that after doing research about what the pros think, it would still be best if you listened for yourself.

One last idea to think about -- While the Feiten system makes guitars sound more in tune, and while it makes basses sound more in tune, when you have an instrument with a *wider* range of notes, for example a specialty tapping instrument, a double neck with bass and guitar, or an 8-string instrument, then the instrument benefits *even more* by adjustments to make it sound more in tune.

If you listen to existing tapping music, you will discover quite a few players who play with constant vibrato. You'll find many players of discordant and jangling music. You'll find many players using 'chorus' effect. All these disguise the basic fact that their playing sounds out of tune.

When you have adjustments that make your instrument sound more in tune, you have more freedom to play *any* kind of music, using *any* kind of effect. And you'll still sound good.

[Adam Fulara]

It's not only about sound, (I prefer guitar sound), it's even more about what You like - long scale playing is complete different.

Wich kind of fingering using bass players and which guitar players? Try to play Bach, or Beethoveen in low registry of 34'' scale and don't broke Your fingers ;), it's not easy (although possibile, but much harder).

What for do you need this instrument - that's the question.

Second side- if You want to play walking lines, it's not good solution to buy doublenecked guitar. That's it.

Besides if you have guitar you don't have to explain to anybody what exactly do you have. If you have stick or sth like that then you have to.

[billbowen]

to further expound on what adam said: if you want to play notes lower than a guitars low E, you will need a longer scale. thicker strings will get you down to a B or so, but the tone suffers. if you want to play notes as high as the guitars high e4 (24th fret of the high e string), you probably want to stick to guitar scale. or you could get a mid scale instrument (like siggi at beartrax http://www.geocities.com/bearguitars/) many of his instruments are 30", which is a nice tenor scale. there are also fanned fret instruments (mobius makes one, and many custom builders can do this as well), which alleviate some of these difficulties, but are costlier. so the question still revolves around: what are you trying to accomplish. the instrument you choose is the solution to the problem of how to create the music you want to create. spend some time on the web looking at the resources on this and other sites. try setting some inexpensive instruments up for tapping. experiment! 7 string guitars and six string basses are cheap on ebay.