Where's the beef?

[K Rex]

Is there anyone out there in the touchstyle world who craves difficult, challenging music with shifting odd meters as I do?

I love all touchstyle, but I've noticed a very conspicuous lack of tappers who play this type of challenging music, especially on the heavier side. I find that most of it is akin to smooth jazz or variations on classical pieces that people have emulated for 100 years.

The only other tappist I've heard in this vein (besides myself) is Colin Marston from Behold...The Arctopus. (www.beholdthearctopus.com)

Check him out.

Any info?

[rockola]

Originally posted by K Rex
Is there anyone out there in the touchstyle world who craves difficult, challenging music with shifting odd meters as I do?

I love all touchstyle, but I've noticed a very conspicuous lack of tappers who play this type of challenging music, especially on the heavier side. I find that most of it is akin to smooth jazz or variations on classical pieces that people have emulated for 100 years.

The only other tappist I've heard in this vein (besides myself) is Colin Marston from Behold...The Arctopus. (www.beholdthearctopus.com)I started reading your posting, and before I got to the end I thought "well, there's that guy from Infidel Castro", but it seems you beat me to it.

If you're not familiar with Steve Hayden, I suggest you check him out. His composition "Black Loam" is truly a modern classic of non-mainstream tapping. I know that at least Clic Music carries his CDs.

And then there's always Brian Kenney Fresno, who hopefully doesn't stop doing his thing until I get the chance to witness it live. Though he may be stressing the "odd" and "shifting" more than the "meters".

[rpmartino]

Thanks for the link, wild stuff! Maybe like a hardcore version of Gentle Giant, but it even goes beyond that... reminds me of Spiral Architect too.

I'm really into prog stuff myself although my tastes might be more on the melodic side with some weirdness thrown in here and there (Tull, Genesis, Van Der Graaf, Gentle Giant, Anglagard, Deus Ex Machina, Marillion etc.) If pop music is like a wine cooler and Behold the Arctopus is like gulping down a barrel of cask strength whiskey, you might say I'm more of a "Scotch straight up, but sip it slowly" type of guy. :)

Having only really focused primarily on the Stick the last year or so my playing is a lot more on the "easy listening" side at this point, so my hands are way behind what my head wants them to do. But I don't think I'll ever be getting anywhere near playing something like Behold the Arctopus. :)

[K Rex]

I've never heard Infidel/Castro.... but I love Arctopus. I'll have to check out Steve Hayden. Thanks for the tip. It's refreshing to hear that you are knowledgable on the subject... What other "prog" stuff do you like? Anyone? Anyone? I just never hear anything outside the classical and jazz idiom in the touchstyle world.

[JimmyTheSaint]

of course there's Stickist Tony Levin of 80's King Crimson.

[K Rex]

Ahh, yes. I love all those Crimson albums with Levin, but oddly enough, not my favorite Crimson... Lark's Tongues in Aspic does it for me... Does anyone know or like any Italian prog bands? The most god-awesome prog rock from the 70's is from Italy. Bands like Area, Arti y Mestieri, Cervello, Picchio dal Pozzo, I could name a hundred more. If anyone cares to do some exploration, I think you would find some of these bands most satisfying (I think Mr. Martino mentioned Deus Ex Machina, too. A great band from the 90's...)

I have mp3s of these bands if anyone is interested.

K

[nickbenn]

Don't forget Trey Gunn - not only of 1994 - 2004 King Crimson, but also his own band (which has, in recent years, included two Warr Guitar players).

[rpmartino]

Originally posted by K Rex
The most god-awesome prog rock from the 70's is from Italy. Bands like Area, Arti y Mestieri, Cervello, Picchio dal Pozzo, I could name a hundred more. If anyone cares to do some exploration, I think you would find some of these bands most satisfying (I think Mr. Martino mentioned Deus Ex Machina, too. A great band from the 90's...)
K

Yes, I have some Banco and PFM in my collection, Locanda Delle Fate, and used to have a recording of Il Balletto di Bronzo (a crazy album called Ys which got lost)

I was incredibly lucky to see Deus Ex Machina play at a little bar/club in Chicago was I was living there a few years ago (I think they've only played a handful of times in the U.S. mostly related to Progfest)... it was a small room, everyone was basically within 30 feet of the stage, they blew the roof off the joint and were really friendly to talk to afterwards.

[JimmyTheSaint]

Originally posted by nickbenn
Don't forget Trey Gunn - not only of 1994 - 2004 King Crimson, but also his own band (which has, in recent years, included two Warr Guitar players).

Trey Gunn's stuff is great. He has MP3's for download at his site at http://www.treygunn.com/sound/index.html

[K Rex]

Oooh, I love YS. What a great album. I have that one....

The one that really blows me away is an album called "Melos" by the band Cervello, an offshoot of another great Italian band called Osanna. Drums, guitar, bass, sax, and vocals-- ALL of them doubling on flute. Awesome counterpoint with FIVE flautists playing together. Interestingly enough, there is a cover of one of the songs from that album on a tribute compilation that I have which is done by a Japanese band with two stickists. Good stuff.

And early PFM is, of course, one of the greats... How about Area, heard them?

K

[rpmartino]

Yes, I've heard a some Area (which Deus Ex Machina seems to derive some influence from), pretty cool... although I tend to lean towards the symphonic/compositional side of prog than the improv/fusion. I also have an A Piedi Nudi album (another 90s Italian prog group).

Here's a cool site where you can hear MP3s of a lot of these obscure groups:

http://www.progarchives.com/

[K Rex]

I've perused the Archives, yes....

If you only check out one Italian band, check out Picchio dal Pozzo's 2nd album called "Abbiamo Tutti i suoi Problemi".

Absolutely the most dense, complex saxophone playing on Earth. Even Zappa called this album "frightening" after it came out in '80. A hard listen, though. Very challenging, not for everyone. And definitely not "fusion"..... Their two other albums are good also, but very different from this modal monstrosity. My very favorite.


K

[K Rex]

I've perused the Archives, yes....

If you only check out one Italian band, check out Picchio dal Pozzo's 2nd album called "Abbiamo Tutti i suoi Problemi".

Absolutely the most dense, complex saxophone playing on Earth. Even Zappa called this album "frightening" after it came out in '80. A hard listen, though. Very challenging, not for everyone. And definitely not "fusion"..... Their two other albums are good also, but very different from this modal monstrosity. My very favorite.


K

[Steve Hayden]

There are some examples on my website that might interest you.
If you find yourself wanting to hear more, I'll be happy to send CD's along. The pieces are quite long, anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes, so what you hear on the site are only tiny excerpts.

[Steve Hayden]

Here's the address:

www.stevehaydenmusic.com

[glints-collide]

I'm also a heavy/odd meter prog freak.

Although the projekcts which can be heard on my website might not cover this area, my new project will be like a fusion of

king crimson, meshuggah, tool, trey gunn band

of course I'm not trying to copy them, but they are my
main influences (also add a bit of squarepusher and Allan Holdsworth as well). I'm planning to do a duo with only drums and warrguitar. My drummer is a polyrhythmic freak and uses electronic devices a lot.
I try to get these meshuggah type staccato grooves into tapping (havn't heard anyone who does this) while adding soundscapes and a bit crimlike patterns on top.

Music will be more melodic and flowing in comparison to Behold the arctopus (which are cool!).

But it's still a long way there, while I have ideas for about 3 new songs for this project(and more ideas for other projects, also incorperating a meshuggah/dillinger tech-metal thing), I still need a lot of practise (I got my warr about one month ago).

I also interested in that new project of yours, K Rex, the
phalanx/drums thing. If you have something recorded, PLEASE post a sample! :-)


I checked out Cervello and Picchio dal Pozzo. Cool and strange music, thanks for the hint!

[K Rex]

Hi Glints,

Pass me your email address and I'll send you some neato stuff.

Kev

[glints-collide]

Hey Kev,

I posted you a private message some time ago!


Alex