Pickup Suggestions?

[Clark_Kent]

A while back I built my own 10-string touchstyle instrument (pretty much a stick clone), and I have experimented with different pickups, but I've never really been happy with anything.
I'm currently using two Hot Rails in a homemade "block" which makes everything sound so-so, but not impressive.
The best bass sound I got was from Split-P dimarzios, but I'm always looking for a good treble-side pickup that will work well with the narrower "stick" string spacing.
I'd also be interested in any comments about pickup locaton for 24-fret 34-inch scale tiptars.
Any thoughts or suggestions?

[traktor]

Originally posted by Clark_Kent
I'd also be interested in any comments about pickup locaton for 24-fret 34-inch scale tiptars.
Any thoughts or suggestions? I've mentioned this before, but perhaps it bears repeating.

Some locations sound better than other locations.

Q: How can you find the better-sounding locations?

A: Try the pickup in different locations and listen to the sound.

Q: How can you try the pickup in different locations?

A: Don't drill different holes in the wood. If you can, string that baby up with no pickups installed. Tune up, so the weight and tension of the string are reasonable. Make up some temporary jig of wood or modelling clay or even use your hand and hold the pickup under or over the strings and move it up and down long-ways while tapping. Find a sweet-sounding spot. That's it.

Tip 1: If you use a jig, it will be holding the pickup a fixed distance from the string. If you use your hand, sometimes it will be louder. Us humans often interpret louder as 'better sounding.' You've been warned.

Tip 2: If you have a lamp -- especially a halogen or neon lamp -- on the desk, your unshielded pickup is going to mostly play a beautiful 60-cycle hum (50-cycle hum in Europe), and that won't help you to hear very well.

Happy Hunting!

[Clark_Kent]

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I have spent many an evening holding pickups by hand trying to find a good spot. But since I'm seriously trying to improve things this time around, I'll go ahead and make up a jig to try different positions.
I'm thinking I need a full-sized humbucker in a neck position to get the kind of tone I want.

[BrendaEM]

Hi,

There is a really fun java pickup simulation here:
http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/index.html

Bartolini has some pickup placement information here:
http://www.bartolini.net/selecting_pickups/choos_93.htm

[Clark_Kent]

I've decided that my pickups are too close to the bridge, so I'm going to move them to more of a neck position to get a nicer tone.

Now, what kind of pickups are you all using in your home built (or commercially built) touch instruments?
I need a bar-magnet type because of my string spacing, and my current pickups make it hard to hear my highest treble strings.
I am considering the hot dimarzio (I think it's the x2n) but I'd love some other ideas.
(and I want to stay with passive pickups)

[rjgoos]

I used the Split P DiMarzios on my recent home-made instrument as well, and am satisfied with both the bass and melody sides.

Were you able to get 5 strings over each of these? I only dared go with four strings over each unit, not wanting to have strings too close to the edge of the metal rails. What string spacing did you end up with? I have essentially a 0.35" spacing, which gives at least 0.35" between the center point of the outside strings, and the outside of the metal pickup rails. The only way to get 5 strings over this pickup would be to go with a narrower string spacing, and allow the outer strings to be closer to the edge of the pickup rails. I was afraid that I might get a lower output from the outer strings.

Also, how close did you put the DiMarzios to the strings? I find that they are pretty "hot", and that (for a tapping instrument) that my pickups are relatively far away from the strings.


Jay

[Clark_Kent]

I actually used two split P's for the bass side, staggered slightly to get a full string spread (my 5 string spread is identical to a Stick). It gave me a really punchy bass and I could set them with a lower height because I was using two.
I considered using one each for the treble and bass sides, but I figured I would have to slant them pretty steeply to get the full spread. It would be great if Dimarzio made a slightly wider version of the Split P, because that would solve the problem.
BUT because I used two, it took up all the space I needed for fitting a full-sized humbucker for the treble side, so I have a Hot-Rail in there right now that just doesn't work very well.
After seeing the modified block on Rick Cucuzza's Stick (http://www.rickcucuzza.com/the_stick.htm) I've decided to make a larger pickup block, maybe angle a Dimarzio humbucker for the treble side and stick my two split P's in the bass.
I made up a jig (Traktor's suggestion) and tried the full sized humbucker in there and it sounds much louder than the Hot Rail, and really has a nice tone.
I'd actually like to see the inside of an original Stick pickup, just so see how the coils sit.

[rjgoos]

OK, I see now, but in using two Split P halves for the bass, and staggering them slightly, doesn't that mean that the interior three bass strings have more access to the overlapping humbucker rails than the outer two string bass strings?

I do like the DiMarzios, though. I'll post another sound excerpt in a few days.


Jay

[rjgoos]

For those of you who are not familiar with the pickups that The Man Of Steel and I are discussing, a diagram is at:

http://homepage.mac.com/tap6/split-p.gif

[Clark_Kent]

I angled the pickups so the outside edge of each was raised, and the inside was lowered so that the middle three strings balanced out okay in the mix.
The pickups were closest to the lightest and heaviest strings. I found that those were the strings that I had the most trouble hearing well.
After all this discussion I have taken another look at the Split-Ps and decided that I may, in fact, be able to get them to work (one bass, one treble) on my "stick". My string spacing is tight enough to fit within the poles (more or less).
I just hadn't considered that before because I was viewing the Split-Ps as a set that had to be wired together (rather than two pickups that could work in stereo).
I'm now considering two Ps on the treble half, to work as neck and bridge pickups, and one P for the bass, situated between the treble Ps (similar to the Mobius 3-pickup setup).

[rjgoos]

Clark,

You could get 5 strings to fit over the pickup, with a 0.3" spacing, like on a Grand Stick, but the outer two strings would be a little close to the edges. Whether that would cause a problem, only a little experimentation would answer.

But the Split P units themselves, are each a complete humbucker, not needing to be wired to each other. At $70, I couldn't beat it for my 8-string unit.


Jay

[Clark_Kent]

Now if I can only figure out how to split a split P, and turn it into a Z pickup...then I could widen the string spread!

[Clark_Kent]

I fooled around a bit with the pickups, and the split Ps (one per side) will NOT work. The string spacing is just too close to the edge to get enough signal.
Instead I ordered a set of single coils from Carvin (one north and one south) so that I can make a jumbo humbucker. I can slant as far as I want, I can adjust the spread of the coils, and the Carvins have 11 adjustable poles so I can dial in that weak outside string.
I'll let you know how it comes out.

[PhoBucket]

You could also try steel guitar pickups. George L, Bill Lawrence, and Lollar Guitars all make 10 (and I think 12) string steel guitar pickups. I'm not sure what the standard stell guitar string spacing is.

[rockola]

Originally posted by PhoBucket
You could also try steel guitar pickups. George L, Bill Lawrence, and Lollar Guitars all make 10 (and I think 12) string steel guitar pickups. I'm not sure what the standard stell guitar string spacing is. The most common spacing is the one used in the Fender Stringmaster, 3/8" between each string. I actually have a set of Bill Lawrence 8-string pickups (with Stringmaster spacing) waiting for an instrument to be built around them. However, 3/8" is a bit tight for a tap instrument.

[Lefty]

I'm considering getting a Siebold (krappy guitars) touch insturment. He puts passive EMG's in them, and I'm considering other pickup options

Anyone have any thoughts/comments on Active EMG's (maybe 81's or 85's) in a tap insturment? Suggestions on what pickups for the bass side?

Comments/thoughts on Bartolinis? Which ones to use? How they sound?

I've got a friend who plays a Warr Phalanx w/bartolinis, and he pretty much gets whatever sound he wants out of them... but he has buttloads of processors...

Any help is appreciated. :D

[jamsire]

All the way - no fuss, no doubt.

Hmph!!

Prepare for the arrival of "Prime."


Jamsire

[rjgoos]

Lefty,

Which active EMGs come in the ACTV pickup array available on a Stick? Bob Culbertson was in my town about a month ago. I thought these pickups sounded great...but of course anything sounds good in his hands.


Jay

[Lefty]

I know the active pickups in the stick are stacked humbuckers, but I don't know what model...

Jamsire, what model of bartolini's do you suggest?

[jamsire]

You know, I am not a spec person - I just know what sounds good.

The man to ask is in fact - Traktor Topaz.

Behold - the arrival of "P-R-I-M-E!":) :)

[rpmartino]

If the EMG pickups in the Block are the same as the ones in the NS/Stick (and I was always under the impression that they are), they are EMG "Front Tele" stacked double-coil pickups.

Check out this link, it even mentions Emmett using it:

http://www.emginc.com/displayproducts.asp?section=Guitar&categoryid=13&catalogid=93

Rob
http://robmartino.com

[rjgoos]

Thanks for the link, Rob.

Jay

[Krappy]

i have had good success with the emg select. it is a blade style humbucker, and fairly cheap. that way string spacing is not an issue.

[rjgoos]

Kevin,

Was that the EMG select for bass or regular guitar? I was over at stewmac.com, and there seems to be models for both.

Jay

[Krappy]

the guitar model--it has a higher ohmage than the bass one.

ps i have a new tune up on the audio page if you want to check it out http://www.krappyguitars.com/audvid.html

[mheintz]

In my bizarre musical instrument exploration, I ran across some 6 to 8 inch pickups and spot pickups. See pickups available at http://www.windworld.com/products/catalog.htm

Perhaps useful for those of you struggling to find long blade pickups.

[rjgoos]

Spot pickups have reportedly been made out of Radio Shack components, such as taking a little relay coil, and replacing the innards with a nail, but the links I had on such devices no longer work.


Jay

[Krappy]

at one point, i made 25 pickups for a 25 stringed instrument--i used small round magnets, and plastic "tracer gun" discs epoxied on. my winder was an old reel to reel tape recorder. took me all night into the early morning, but it worked! boy i think i may have dragged this original post off course a bit...

[cbowen4]

This is a great thread, BTW. I'm working on a 12 string with 0.3" string spacing and I'm starting to think about pickups. What's the difference between guitar and bass pickups, anyway? I notice the pickups on brand S seem to look symmetrical between with the bass and treble sides and one model uses all Villex pickups, who say they only make bass guitar pickups. I want to set up the stereo configuration, where the bass and treble sides are independent, so I guess it doesn't matter, but would just using bass pickups work or should I select different pickups for each side?

[dr. blues]

"Spot pickups have reportedly been made out of Radio Shack components, such as taking a little relay coil, and replacing the innards with a nail, but the links I had on such devices no longer work.


Jay"

cheers everyone!
this is my first post here, but i’ve been lurking for a while watching BrendaEM’s progress on her instrument...facinating chronicle! looks to be a beautiful instument when done!

i like the concept of individual pickups for each string. you could conceivably go beyond stereo to 1 channel per string (i don't know about 25 channels though). using ic op amps, the signal level from each pickup could be controlled. the circuit board would be small enough to fit onboard the instrument if desired.

i made a 4 channel pickup for a 4 string baritone guitar i built using these small relays and small neodynium magnets: http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RLY-91/500/24_VDC_SPDT_3_AMP_PC_MOUNT_RELAY_.html

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/MAG-91/370/0.312"#34;_DIA_X_0.125"#34;_THICK_NEODYMIUM_.html
hacking the relays up was definitely more fun than winding pickups (to me, anyway). so far i have designed, but not built the controller. i get decent output with the pickups wired in parallel.

another innovative idea, not mine i must admit, is to use magnetic sensors in lieu of conventional pickups: http://www.magsensors.com/vss.html
i have also tried this and it does work, but the sensor likes to be quite close to the string, probably about 3 mm. for a tap instrument this would not be as big an issue as with a plucked instrument. depending on which type of sensor was used, the output could be analog or digital. with digital output the instrument could easily be used as a midi controller.

i will be starting my first tap instrument in the spring. likely it will be 10 string with individual pickups for each string. i am leaning toward the magnetic sensors, because of the ability to generate a digital signal straight away w/o an adc. but i need to do more research/experiments with them.

btw, i checked the forum links and there is not one for http://www.mimf.com/
the musical instrument makers forum. i know ola is familiar with it...some of the best luthiers on the planet hang out there and share their knowledge freely. i’ve been building guitars for 2 or so years. what little i know i learned there. the mimf archives also has pickup building info.

ciao...dr. blues

[rjgoos]

Originally posted by dr. blues
"
i will be starting my first tap instrument in the spring. likely it will be 10 string with individual pickups for each string.


Wow...what is in the drinking water around here? How many construction projects are underway or on the drawing board....Ola's, Brenda's, Gary's, Dr. Blues'...who else am I forgetting??? Kevin must have a couple in gestation as well.

My current project is underway, too....a 10-stringer, with an uncrossed "Carpentier" tuning.


Jay

[gvella]

After I sold my stick back in 87 like a @#$%%^ I ended up making a clone in 93 .I used Lawrence pickups,blade type but the blade is arched so I filed it smooth and adjusted for the strings.The four high strings are still a problem but with a preamp it helps.All in all a nice tone and good bass responce.

[rjgoos]

Originally posted by gvella
After I sold my stick back in 87 like a @#$%%^ I ended up making a clone in 93 .I used Lawrence pickups,blade type but the blade is arched so I filed it smooth and adjusted for the strings.The four high strings are still a problem but with a preamp it helps.All in all a nice tone and good bass responce.


Another builder!!! Yahoo!!! This is apparently the internet forum where homebuilders of tapping instruments seem to congregate.

DiMarzio twin-blade bass pickups (Split P D127) are flat on the surface, and need no filing, and work absolutely great for a stereo 8-string tapper. They are too narrow for a 10-stringer.

I have some twin-blade humbuckers (in a single-coil-Strat form factor, sold to me by a most benevolent soul) that I was hoping to put in my next instrument. I was afraid to file the blades flat, though. How does one do that without breaking pickup wires, etc.?

Thanks and welcome,

Jay

[gvella]

With the Lawrence pickups the winding is sealed just the blade is seen.I masked off around the blade and with a fine file brought the blade down until I touched the tape.It should be the same with your pickups,the wires shouldn't be a problem.