Brenda's Tap Guitar Project

[BrendaEM]

NOTE: You can serverly injure yourself by using woodworking tools. Please always wear safety glasses and hearing protection. Please read all the manuals that come with all your tools, and heed those warnings as well.

These are not instructions for making an instrument, but only a diary of my progress. The owners and maintainers of Tappistry.org, and I will not be held responsible for anything that might happen to you should you decide to make your own instrument. Woodworking takes some skills, and if you are not comfortable making something yourself, there are many fine premade instuments you can purchase.

Some tools like routers are esspecially loud and can make you hard of hearing in a short time. Other tools like saws can sever a finger or limb faster than I can type the period on this sentence.

A jointer can cut you 20,000 times in one second. I bled from a jointer blade cut--when it was off!

Carbide router bit tips are brazed on--by people.

Please never work under the influence of anything that might impair your judgement. If you are tired, walk away. It will still be there in the next day.

Please be careful. Thank you : )

*********************************

I received the fretboards from Allen Guitar. They came out great! Randy Allen was really nice to do business with. I would not hesitate to do business with him again.

The boards are:
34" Scale
Nut (Zero), Dampner, and Two Octaves. (Nut + 25 Frets)
16" Radius
Pau Ferro

The stainless-steel fretwire fits the slots nicely.

I was prepared to take a year to finish this project, but as I opened the box containing the boards I felt I had to have it finished yesterday.

This thread may move slowly because of funds, but I will share what I learn.

[rjgoos]

Looks great! Does this company have a web site?

Thanks,

R. Jay

[BrendaEM]

Originally posted by rjgoos
Looks great! Does this company have a web site?

Thanks,

R. Jay

http://www.allenguitar.com/

[Fredrik]

Hi,
What stringspacing and configuration are you going for?

Good luck with your DIY!

Fredrik

[BrendaEM]

I am not sure, but it will probably be larger than usual. I am playing uncrossed, and I want my fingers to pass each other without angst.

One the one hand, If the spacing is too small my fingers will collide, and pull offs will be difficult; on the other hand if they are too far, I won't be able to voice cords.

I planned on a 3-3/4" fretboard width and 8 strings. I have to draw everything out, now that I have the fretboard, so these aren't firm figures, but I would like 9-10mm at the nut and around 12mm at the bridge, with equal spacing.

I also have to watch the instrument weight because my shoulder and back are a little tweaked.

[Fredrik]

Your spacing sounds good to me. I chose 8 at the nut and 13 at the bridge, and that works well. But I belive the spacing would be a bit narrow for uncrossed playing at the nut. The 13 spacing is quite wide compared to the bass stick, but it works well when plucking the strings. It also opens up the higher chords.

How are you planning to do the body and strap attachment?
I'm thinking you should attach it like a stick if you're concerned about your back. My tapper weighs about the same as a bass guitar and is much heavier than a stick.

If you go for the warr like attachment (I did) you need some body mass to balance it well.

Fredrik

[BrendaEM]

I don't like wearing belts, and can't always play standing up, so and I do want a guitar body.

I am eyeing a billet of sitka spruce. My Parker was spuce, and a really liked it, in that it looked old even when it was high-tech. I think the Spuce is 27 pounds cubic foot. It's supposed to be nice and resonant. With only a light finish it's softness is an issue that concerns me.

Swamp ash is my second choice. Figured bubbinga is simply beautiful, but it's too heavy for my project. I think it's over 45 lbs a cubic foot.

[Fredrik]

Bubinga is dead heavy!
When it comes to sound quality, it matters very little what wood you choose. According to Listerud who build my bass, and the builders he's in contact with around the world it seemes to be an agreement that the electronics you choose is the main factor of what sound you get.

For instance, changing electronics on an instrument influences much more, than changing the body wood but keeping the same electronics as before.

[rockola]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
I am eyeing a billet of sitka spruce. (...) With only a light finish it's softness is an issue that concerns me.

How about alder? It's light, cheap, easy to work with, and readily available. I've built two bodies out of alder and probably will use it again.

[BrendaEM]

Alder is a nice wood, but I want the lightness of swamp ash or spruce. I have hear rumors to the effect that spruce can warm up a neck-through guitar a little. I would like to do a set neck, but that may be beyond my woodworking skill in that how big must the tennon be to carry the weight of eight strings? I have heard of basses with tapered joints so that it's part set neck and part neck though.

Pickups do have a great bearing on the sound of an electric instrument, but I find it hard to believe that an instrument made of desert ironwood would sound the same as one made of spruce. A lot of woods have similar denisty and stiffness but look different. For instance, I doubt I could hear the difference between instruments made of padauk and rosewood, or between walnut and mahogany, or beech, cherry or and maple, (though I would not dare make an instument out of beech becasue it's affected by moisture more than maple.)

The wood choice and neck design seem to have an effect on attack and sustain too. I have a friend who has a solid rosewood Alembic bass. Even unplugged it sounds nice, but is it heavy. I could be the heaviest guitar shaped instrument I have ever held--that's including my old Les Paul Custom. I may keep more material at the heal where the neck ond body meet, so it attacks fast.

I am not sure what I am going to do for pickups. Perhap I will submit to peer pressure and use Bartolinis. The do have a nice selection. I want the neck pickup to have a coil splitter switch.

[rockola]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
Alder is a nice wood, but I want the lightness of swamp ash or spruce.

Swamp ash is in fact heavier than alder.

Reference: http://www.guitarscanada.com/extras/guitar_woods.htm

I am not sure what I am going to do for pickups. Perhap I will submit to peer pressure and use Bartolinis.

Bartolinis do sound wonderful, but I thought you were on a budget? They're not exactly the cheapest alternative.

[rjgoos]

My next tap instrument, Prototype 3, will have eight strings and use a set of Dimarzio Split P DP127, dual rail pickups, one for the melody set of strings, one for the bass set of strings.

[BrendaEM]

I am on a budget, but for me, sometimes being on a budget means not buying pickups twice. I can't afford to use pickups that I would be dissatisfied with.

The parts will cost less than $900. I will need to sell the guitar I own now. I need to watch my tool budget; that's the killer.

Spruce Body Wood- $75
Tuning pegs- $200
Fingerboard (have)- $50
Electonics/Pickups $330
Maple Neckwood $50
Fretwire (have) $30
Dot Inlays, Strap Buttons, Misc Hardware, String ferrels $40
Nut, Delrin? -$10
Srings $50?
Truss rod? $25
Finish-$30 [I have used this before, and may use it for this greater pursose. http://www.lin-speed.com/]

[rjgoos]

Brenda,

Sounds like a high-quality list of parts!


Jay

[BrendaEM]

I rounded up to a worst-case scenerio.

[BrendaEM]

I bought some body wood.

Two billets of Alder (top), and one long sitka spruce board. Both boards will need planing and jointing, I bought both because there was a minimum order. The dark area on the alder is unplaned wood.

I started drawing out the body in the Gimp using berzier curves. I started with an original Mark Warr design. From there I lengthened the body, but kept it with the original lines. I blended the curves.

I also made the upper horn a little beefer because I am using spruce, which pretty soft, and I don't want to split it along the grain.

I laid out the pickup locations from information found at Bartolini. I drew out the approximate bridge location, strap location, and the centerline. I am working on the string spacing, and neck edges. The final bridge placement will be measured.

My fretboard overhangs the body by one additional fret. It will overhang the body at the 7th fret from the end (25th). I will need to trim the fretboard.

I am getting excited at this point. If you look closely at my drawing, you can see I shaded it and added woodgrain, which speaks loudly of my sickness. Um...just checking the body round-over clearence between the pickup and body edge. That's my story and I am sticking with it: )

[Fredrik]

Looks very interesting! I'm looking forward to see how your progress will be. One question - why did you lengthen the body from the original design?

[BrendaEM]

I thought that Trey Gunn made a good observation that there should be some wood around the bridge to resonate. Appearencewise, I do like Mark Warr's original design better, so I blended the two.

I like Mark Warr's idea of shaving the upper horns when he designed his guitar. To my eye the lower bouts look a little like Tobias' designs.
http://www.gibson.com/products/tobias/basic.html

I am playing with string spacing today. It looks like the lower pickup arpature size is the limiting factor for string spacing. I am drawing it out with 10mm on top and 12mm on the bottom. I did a test with my guitar, and my fingers touch as they pass, but don't stop one another.

I want to use Bartolini's, if I can get them, but it's going to be hard.

I am allowing 5mm between the edge of the fretboard and the edge strings, but I will check this on some basses. I don't want the strings to skip off, but still it seems reasonable. My guitar only has 3mm on the bass string centerline.

If I can do it, I don't want the neck to go all the way through.
I am looking at doing a blind scarf joint becasue that's the easiest way I could put more light wood along the string path. I want that spruce to sing a little.

I think I can do the joint that's one up from the bottom left:
http://www.timberbestpractice.org.uk/tbpp/ATR/joints/p_ilock4.htm

This keyed scarf is nice, but it's overkill.
http://www.alcespostandbeam.com/current/sc_lodge/scarf_01.jpg

Warwick has set-neck bases with scaf joints.
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/51/519114.jpg

[Fredrik]

Two other ways to increase the sustain is 1) a neck trought design (wouldn't this be easier technically as well?) and 2) a thick baseplate under the bridge. I have a 6 mm thick base on my brass bridge and neck trough, and it rings for ever :-)

I think I have 5-6 mm spacing from the center of the bass string and haven't had any problems with strings skipping of the board so far.

It will be nice to know how your spacing works out. I've chosen a 8/14 spacing, and it really works well for 8 strings.

[PhoBucket]

I am consistently amazed by the quality of custom instruments biult by/for members of this board.

Will the instrument be headless, or are you just leaving that out of the photos for now? Will the truss rods adjust at the body, or the head? How will it be tuned? I think Fredrik was experimenting with a crafty-type tuning on his.

For now I can only speak from a bass guitar standpoint, but IMO, Pau Ferro is an excellent choice for fingerboard. Would spruce be suitable as a neck wood, or is it too flexible?

[Fredrik]

The experiment wa not by choise though. Recieved a crafty (or so it should have been) string set, that broke during set up. So ended up with the perfect fourth tuning instead. I'm using a stringset for the SB8 from SE now, wich works very well.

[BrendaEM]

PhoBucket,

It will have a head; I drew it out last night, but I have to have the tuners before I can finish drawing anything.

I went with a heel mounted spoke neck adjustment rod.

It will be strung uncrossed. (The bass strings will be on the bottom.) It will be tuned in straight fourths.

The highest possible note (25th fret on my new instrument) will be the same as the 21st fret on a normally tuned guitar (20th on my straight-forth tuned Stratocaster.)

I think the string tension will be reasonable; only one semitone higher than a regular guitar. (I tune my guitar in straight forths too.)

With only 8 strings I don't think it will go as low as a normal bass, but I am losing one note, but gaining over a whole octave of bass.

I think that spruce is an inappropriate neck wood. Even if it were made thick to be strong enough, a fingernail could easily dent it. I am going to use maple for the neck.

I do want as much spruce in the body as I can get. A total neck-through will probably have more sustain than what I am making, but a quick and dirty set-neck may might sound warmer and more resonant.

Spruce it very stiff for it's weight, it's a soft wood, and I will have to be careful if I use a lightweight finish. The instrumentbody will show use, but that's okay, as long as it sounds good. I have some alder too, but I am partial to the spruce.

[Fredrik]

Two questions BrendaEM, would it be a good idea with a thin layer of alder in the top to make the surface more "use" resistant? And, what tune would the brightest open string be?

[BrendaEM]

I want the body finish to look like a violin. I think the body is going to show use around the edges more. Even if it gets dinged, it's okay; I am going to play this thing.

The highest open string will be a C. The first 1, 13, 25 frets will be C# . Even with a dampner, I will have two full usuable octaves per string, (but in real life the low notes on the thin strings won't have much going on anymore than the bass strings will up high.)

When I finish the tap guitar all the notes will be in the same place, with the same markers, but I will have two more strings, and one less high note...unless I add a 26th fret : O
But, then there will be less truss rod under the fretboard.]

I think, on a fretboard with 27 frets/34 inch scale, the highest fret would be the same pitch and size as a 22 fret guitar. It's all wierd, alternate tunings and all, it's like trying to do math with a new number base system.

[rjgoos]

Go Brenda go!!


Jay

[BrendaEM]

Note: In my calculation in the previous post, I forgot that most people don't tune their six-string guitars in straight fourths.

BTW, thank you all for the encouragment : )

[BrendaEM]

I am still rounding up parts for the tap Guitar Project. Most of the small stuff came in.

I have a couple of carbon reenforcement rods for the neck. They are very strong, so strong, in fact, that if they were stronger you couldn't dial in the proper reliefe for the neck. It seems that 2 of ~1/4 inch rods are enough. I had to send back the spoke wheel truss rod becasue my fretboard is too long to use it. I ordered an allen one.

[I knew someone who built a 36 inch scaled bass with no truss rod--just carbon reenforcement rods, but I am not that brave.]

The pickups and tuners are on order. I found someone who has some quartersawn maple that I can use for the neck. The pickups may take quite some time to come in.

Scronging parts has been very time-consuming. I think I have spent more time websurfing for things than making my measured drawing.

I am trying not to let it cut into my practice time, and I have been sick too.

[BrendaEM]

Top: Shelf-liner/Dampner Material
Carbon and Truss rods

From Left:

Luthier's Glue (this appears to be fresh casein glue.) It dries very hard. I tested it, and found it to be much harder than my fingernail.
Some strings.
Copper Sheilding Foil
Guitar Side tuners (still waiting on Bass ones.)
Gotoh Dual Battery Case
Black Strat lackplate with stereo switching jack.
MOP Markers.
Router bit's for rods, screws, strap buttons, switchcraft-type pickup selector.

I know the strat plate thing is strange, but I really like them because they keep the cord out of the way, and the jack won't get bent if the guitar bottoms-out. I am going to mount it in back.

I like the Less-Paul pickup selector. When I am playing, I don't like to mess with fussy switches. I find that on a Strat changing pickups on a 5-way switch can be challenging to me when I am playing.

[BrendaEM]

The neck wood came in.

I dampened the ends with water to show the grain. The wood is hard maple. (It is normally as light in color as you would expect.)

The boards are 8/4, and planned a little larger than 1.75" x 6" with one edge jointed.

The top two pieces may legally be quartersawn, but look more like rift sawn. I am sure that it would make a better neck than flatsawn. The top pieces appear to be cut from the same tree. It looks like they are a split 6 x 6 quartersawn billet.

The bottom two look excellent. The grain is nice and vertical.

I plan on making a 3 or 5 piece neck. The trick is not to have any lanimations along the edge of the fretboard.

The boards are 4 feet long, and if I drop one on my foot, I am sure to notice : )

[rjgoos]

Wow! I hope that you will be taking lots of digital pictures as you build it, Brenda. I, for one, have no clue how to go from hunks of wood to a guitar.


Jay

[BrendaEM]

I received the bass tuners.

I redrew the drawing in a free/opensouce application called Inkscape. http://www.inkscape.org/ I couldn't get the guides to snap to the grid, so I just don't use them. This deficiancy aside, I like inkscape. It could almost be a 2d cad program. I should do something it in Blender, but perhaps not this project.

The old Gimp drawing was a mixture of SAE and metric. I measured 34 inches here, and 5 millimeters there.

I converted everthing in the new drawing to metric. I think I got the headstock down. I thought the Megatar headstock cutout was a good idea in an instrument that I don't want to be top heavy, so I may use it. I am not sure. If I do, at least, everyone will be angry at me using their ideas.

The tuners are set inline of the center of the strings, but then they are pulled back 1/2 of .125 so the strings won't angle toward the inside. I thought that .125 would be the largest string that would ever be on it. Notice that the bass tuners on the bottom are different than the guitar tuners on the top.

The headstock isn't quite a full Gumby or Alligator head, but it still seems to look okay.

I know this drawing business seems a little much, but I don't want to waste wood, time, and money. I want the first instrument to come out good, so I want to work out everything before I start cutting anything.

[traktor]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
<...snip...> I thought the Megatar headstock cutout was a good idea in an instrument that I don't want to be top heavy, so I may use it. I am not sure. If I do, at least, everyone will be angry at me using their ideas. Mobius Megatar wouldn't be angry with your adapting this idea. We would just think that you were observant, and aware of good design ideas.

(Obviously, we wouldn't want somebody copying the exact shape of our headstock cut-out, because that functions as a trademark. That's why we registered a design patent on our shapes -- to avoid the troublesome confusion that can result from exact copies.)

Due to the rhetoric that flies around, one can easily get wrong ideas about ownership of *ideas*. Bogus "patents" aside, the fact is that nobody can patent a pure idea. A new idea itself, once expressed, has been created in the world, and now it's part of the world.

Fact: It steam-engines at steam-engine time.

Make headstock cut-outs (of your own design) as you please, if you feel that it's good design. We at Mobius Megatar feel that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and a good artist takes ideas where she finds them.

[Fredrik]

All though I would say that a hole of that size only fuctions as a design feature, not a weight saving one really ;-)

[BrendaEM]

Traktor, thanks for understanding : )

I do want some weight in the headstock, but I am worred about balance. I don't want the headstock leaning all over the place, if I can help it. Every little bit helps. As long as it doesn't make the headstick weak.

[The cutout looks like about a mere cubic inch. 12 Cubed is 1,728. Maple is about 44 pounds a cubic foot. If I had done this right the cutout weighs 0.025462962962963 LBS or 0.407407407407408 Oz or 11.5498057 Grams.]

[rjgoos]

This is looking more-and-more interesting all the time, Brenda. I'm guessing that Traktor would be happy to sell you a strap to take advantage of that head design.

All of this is making me feel bad for not finishing Prototype 3. I'm heading down to the shop now..


Jay

[Fredrik]

11 grams, that's one bite of a mars bar ;-) But it looks kinda cool though!

I was quite surpriced about the balance of my own instrument when it was finnished. I too feared the heavy head syndrome. However it balances perfectly to my needs. And, the body of your instrument is bigger than mine as far as I can see. If your planning to use a warr like strap attachment the balance will probably be very nice.

Personally I preffer the two attachmentpoints over the stick method, or the mobius one. It gives a more organic approach to the neck for me, being able to rise and lower it after playing style.

[PhoBucket]

Brenda,

I did not see a bridge specified in your hardware list. Have you come to any conclusions about what type you will use?

[BrendaEM]

Fredrik, thank you for trying to calm my nerves about the instrument balance. I still want to be careful because the spruce body will be light, and I still hope to taper the neck-through to spruce somewhere before I get to the bridge.

[I am playing a (oddly nice? mexican) strat right now. I have the strap mounted one of the neck mounting bolts. It's a hack. I don't want to have to hack this instument when I get it finished.]

I haven't chosen a bridge design, but I think this would be my favorite. I tried to contact him to ask if he would make a legal version with 12mm spacing.
http://www.naimishbridge.com/
http://www.activebass.com/members/richardnaimish/

To my eye, the side-locking design used in Fredrik's instument looks a little like:
http://www.musicyo.com/planet/db.asp

I am also looking at Wilkinson saddle type. Wilkinson has been bought out, and there are so many variations that is difficult to know the saddles you are getting are stainless or not. The Graphtech saddles seem okay, but I don't know if they are made heavy enough to transmit the energy from the bass strings well. If I want stainless saddles the bridges I take them from will cost hundreds of Dollars.

I have been avoiding this issue, because I am not sure. I might buy a Sieg (Harbor freight/Grizzly...) mini mill, and make my own saddles.

[Fredrik]

Listerud, who built my guitar, milled the bridge himself. If you notice on the pics posted under my DIY design thread you will se that he has flipped the brightest four "string attachments" (what are they really called??) around to make the postitioning of all 8 as similar as possible.

Also, as mentioned, the base plate is 6 mm thick and lowered into the body and gives a tremendous sustain. It's probably a bit heavy, but sometimes you have to sacrifice weight to get another strenght soundwise.

Good luck on your stringquest!

Do you have an ETAP on this instrument by the way (Estimated Time of Actually Playing)?

[BrendaEM]

The string attachments--Saddles?

I don't have a time figure. It may be a few months. I just have rounded up most of the parts. I may also be months before the pickups come in, but that can wait to near last.

Money is a big issue, or I wouldn't be doing this in the first place. I have a few nice things, but I am living on what is considered the poverty line here in the US, which is probably like a banker in etheopia.

I bought some hand tools, files, rasps, and a cheap digital vernier. I do need access to a jointer, planer, drill press, and router.

I am troubled lately, seeing these fretboards kicking around here, with extra wood at the end of the fretboard. If I can do it accuratly, I don't see any harm in adding a few more frets. Even though these instuments are 34 inch scale, they can go as high as a 24 fret guitar, if they have frets far enough up the string.

The fretboards I have have 25 frets, adding two more would give it the same high note as a 22 fret stratocaster. The pickup location needn't be moved.

I have only my small 6-inch vernier, so I would only be able to accuratly measure them relative from another fret, which is not optimal.

[traktor]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
< ...snip... > I do need access to a jointer, planer, drill press, and router.
< ...snip... >
I have only my small 6-inch vernier, so I would only be able to accuratly measure them relative from another fret, which is not optimal. If you have access to a decent router in a table, then it probably has a fence. If it has a fence, you can add a shim to the outbound fence, and presto! Instant jointer, at least for your purposes here.

If you get a high quality metal measuring tape (the metal kind that snaps back into its housing), that costs nil, and you could then measure both from fret zero (the nut) *and* from the last fret with your caliper, which would improve things a bit. You could measure both on artists tracing paper and then when you were satisfied, glue to fretboard or copy to wood with carbon paper. If you had access to a good CAD program or high-end drawing program you might be able to print accurate layout. As I recall, you're also a computer person and familiar with open-source things. I'll bet there's a free drawing program out there that would take your drawings. Print them onto Arvey label full sheets -- then *check* dimensions in case your printer conversion scaled things up or down!

Maybe RJ and Ola will kick in and reveal how they measured theirs. (I've just done calculations and farmed the job out, so never had to do it by hand.)

But that gives me another suggestion: Farm out the job. Probably Warmoth in Washington state can do it. If you had fanned frets, I think Novak will cut them as a job. (You'd need platelles then, but I can supply those.) I'll bet a search would turn up many other luthiers who could cut the fretslots if you wanted to off-load the job, for money or barter.

These are just some ideas to open up and widen possibilities. There's probably a better way than any of these.

[rjgoos]

I have a steel ruler, 24 inches long, with divisions of 0.05 inch. But unlike Fredrik or Brenda, who want their first instrument to be their last one, I am still making prototypes of my bizarre designs, trying to come up with something totally new.

I have a relative with access to a shop with CNC (Computer Numeric Controlled) mill, and after I have perfected my design, I will have one made for me with frets good to 0.001 inch via CNC equipment.


Jay

[BrendaEM]

The fretboads I have were most-likely CNC'ed or done with a radial arm saw and a digital read out. Than't the only way they could have been made profitably. I am not worred about the act of placing the additional frets.

What concerns me is what it's going to do to my poor brain if I have to endure another fretdot scheme. I am doing okay playing uncrossed now, after two months. The instrument will have better than two ocave length.

[rockola]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
What concerns me is what it's going to do to my poor brain if I have to endure another fretdot scheme.

Why should you have to? The Tap Guitar Police is not going to knock on your door if you put the dots where you think they should be.

[BrendaEM]

Rockola,

I want the time that I spend practicing to be as effecient as possible, so I have redotted my guitar with black and white tape so my practice will lead to the new instrument when it is done. (If you look at my strat you can see the black dots where I covered them. BTW, it's only a 21 fret neck.)

That's why I didn't want the change the scheme--I already have been using the other one, but I did.

This is the dot scheme I am going to use for the new instrument. It's just a standard guitar scheme, but it starts at an open double-dot. (The dots are just placed.) I am going to cut 2 or 4 more frets at the top of the board.

Btw, I think you all want to see some sawdust soon, as much as I do, but I want to know what I am making before I make it.

[traktor]

Hi, Brenda,

Here is a (very small) suggestion ...

Since you're planning on adding a double dot at fret two, for a moment just consider adding this double dot at fret three instead.

Then, just for symmetry, instead of having a double dot at fret 23, you'd make it fret 22.

Now, compared to guitar, you've only added one marker where there normally is no marker, and you've moved one marker.

Now for just a moment, suppose that where you have single dots at frets seven and seventeen, suppose you put double dots there instead. Now we've still basically got guitar-type markings, but look what you've also accomplished ...

Now every double-dot fret is one fourth from the next string over, which means that any pattern of notes relative to a double-dot marker is identical to the same pattern of notes at the next string over and the next double dot marker.

This in turn means that you can very easily locate identical note patterns on sections of the fretboard far apart.

(PS: You've also just marked the fretboard just as the Mobius fretboard is marked. We have no trademark on this because really it's an old system that was commonly used many years ago (and is still used on ethnic and fifths-tuned instruments like some mandolins). You can see a similar pattern of dot-markers on the first guitar that Leo Fender made (http://megatar.com/english/Touchstyle/Instruments/instruments.html) long ago.

This pattern gives you both the familiar guitar-map that many people know, and it also gives you a 'fourths-map' which is especially powerful to folks playing two-handedly.

Just an idea ...

[BrendaEM]

The fourthmap is a very sound idea. but why make the intermediate markers unsymetercal? To make the location in the octave reconizable?

It would be interesting to adjust your pattern to make it symeterical, and use octave makers that are just a little larger. (Not so large as not fit betwween the hight frets. That way, you know where you are in the octave, and have a intermediate fourthmap. I may be tired but it seems to work.

I don't know what the unsymmetry buys the player other than spatial awareness of the position within the octave. It seems like a compromise: you trade a 4th intermediate guide for knowing whether you are in the top of bottom of the octave.

...

I did an experiment. I tried a symmetrical scheme. It appears to be easier to wind and unwind scales from one or more strings, but you lose the octave markers, anotherwords, you don't know where you are in the scale in ab absolue sense.

I should have started another thread for this kind of thing.

[rjgoos]

I would like the second the suggestion, to add dots and double dots, as are on the Megatar, and on Mr. Fender's original guitar. It is a handy marking system.

In any case, Brenda, keep up the good work.


Jay

[traktor]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
The fourthmap is a very sound idea. but why make the intermediate markers unsymetercal? To make the location in the octave reconizable?
Gee, when I look at it, I see it as symmetrical. Additionally, it's *almost* identical to standard guitar marking (only two locations move), so it's recognizable to guitar players.

It would be interesting to adjust your pattern to make it symeterical, and use octave makers that are just a little larger. (Not so large as not fit betwween the hight frets. That way, you know where you are in the octave, and have a intermediate fourthmap. I may be tired but it seems to work. You could mark *only* the fourths, as does Mr. Chapman, but I do not believe this quite works for a human's natural perception. IMHO, the human needs *some* landmarks more frequent than every fifth fret for visualization, as the frets all look the same.

[Why can't just anybody pick the Jack of Spades from a deck of cards fanned down? Because all the cards look alike.]

I did an experiment. I tried a symmetrical scheme. It appears to be easier to wind and unwind scales from one or more strings, but you lose the octave markers, anotherwords, you don't know where you are in the scale in ab absolue sense.
Could we see it?

[PS: For mapping out markers, Arvey's stick-on dots are just swell. And they come in such pretty colors!]

[rjgoos]

I would also like to say that, depending on your technique, that the dots on the fretboard may not be the only thing to consider.

I had the opportunity to play an instrument with edge dots. With cross-handed play (and a right-handed playing technique), this allows the dots to guide the left hand. This allows the player to have the neck more vertical, and away from the body, allowing the edge dots to guide the left hand, rather than the fretboard dots. It is a different ergonomic arrangement to consider, and eliminates the hunched-up body formation that typifies many players.

Just a thought.


Jay

[BrendaEM]

The body wood I am using is pretty light, so I have added more wood past the bridge. The length is just a little shorter than a Stratocaster bout. If the instrument seems heavy, I can hollow it, and I may want to anyway.

The red guidelines show where the 5-peice neck will be seamed. I don't want to route along a seam. (The blue centerline is for reference only.) I also wanted the edge of the fretboard free from gluelines. I can save wood if at two more gluelines on the peghead.

[The two tuner models on the bottom of the drawing are copies unspolied by rotating translations.]

When the neck wood came it, it was was strapped together. Someone must have dropped the wood on the strap clamp because it dented the wood. I used some water and a steam iron to raise the dent most of the way, but it will still have to be planed. Fortunatly, I still have enough wood to plane off some and make the neck.

I am anxious to do more, but my funds are low right now. I will get a jointer soon, and start some woodworking : )

....until then, I need to work up a side view plan.

[BrendaEM]

This is the dot pattern I have been testing on my (old) guitar for a week or two. It's just a fourthmap variation.

My brain seems to like it, so far. The fourthmap seems more useful than the absolute positioning.

On the new instrument the pattern will start with a double dot at the first playable fret.

[traktor]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
On the new instrument the pattern will start with a double dot at the first playable fret. So on your new instrument you're going to put a nice double dot beneath the string deadener?

[BrendaEM]

Playable fret. Using this scheme, apparently the very first fret location won't have anything under it.

[Brainwise, visually. I percieve the scheme like this... On the double dot, the space before, the space after, the upper and lower single dot.

Even there are a lot of dots sets, but I still seem know where I am playing because I know about where on the neck I am playing by feel. The dots take over from there.

Unfortunalty, when I move something up an octave, the dot pattern changes. I see the octave on one string as two fourths, and two extra frets.

Flatted fiths would seem like a logical tuning, but that's asking too much of myself to relearn--everything.]

[BrendaEM]

Sorry about the lack updates, it reflects a lack of progress, which is centered on a lack of funds.

Anyway, I bought a small Sears wood jointer, which is the same as Palmgren jointer. It's a heavy little 100 pound (40Killo?) thing. It has a good fence that I thought was a lot better than the small Delta. It's just long enough to be able to joint my 4 foot boards.

My pickups came in : )

They are Batrolini xxm56cx pickups. They are quad coil, wound bright--even though they are bass pickups.

I bought them from http://www.guitarelectronics.com/

Of the places that sell Bartolinis, they were the only place that seemed interested in doing special/custom orderers. They took two months to come in.

They are working on a pickup switching gizmo. Something to oogle.
http://www.precisionmusictech.com/gmax.htm]

I am going to try holding them over my guitar tommorrow to see how they sound.

At 4.5" x 1.5" quad coil and epoxy filled, they aren't lightweight. They are very solid though. Please don't throw any at me.

Unlike, EMGs, they have some magnetic pull to them, but it seems softer than a strat pickup.

Aparrently, Bartolini pickups are pretty much all passive pickups, but their Eq's and electronics have buffers amplifiers in them.

Even though they are quad coil, they are externally prewired like a standard humbucker. This can be undone for true multi-tap stereo.

[rjgoos]

Brenda,

Just curious, any estimates of how much you'll have in the instrument when it's done, in terms of materials?

Thanks,


Jay

[BrendaEM]

I think it will be $900-1000, but I also have a tool budget too.

The pickups were the most expensive item, second was the wood and its shipping. The shipping is almost as much as the wood, so I bought a little extra.

It's really hard to hit a moving target because I am making this instrument up as I go along. For instance, I originally had planned to use a 18 volt active/passive setup, but now I want a 9 volt system, because I don't want the extra weight in the guitar. So, I have to get a single battery box. Every little change costs.

[The guitar may be passive at first. Bartolini pickups will work passive, or active by adding a buffer amplifier, which seems like a good thing in a tap instrument.

After running my silly test, I am pleased with the sound of the Bartolini cx pickups, which is good because there aren't that many pickups that can span 8 strings at a wide spacing. I want to hide a soundboard tranducer in there too, or at least make room for it.]

I can go so any local store and find that the store is just exuding guitar parts, but bass parts are hard to find.

[BrendaEM]

I bought a little Sears Jointer, it's the same as the Palmgen model.

I have a gread deal of respect for this little machine, and a healthy dose of fear. Notice the paddles. They are invaluable for keeping fingers out of the thing.

It's a small jointer, but it does okay up to 4-5 foot boards.

[BrendaEM]

With a little tweeking of the machine, I was a to get nice flat (shinny) cuts. I will sand the edges before doing the glueup, so the glue has some bite.

[BrendaEM]

I found someone with a planer, who planed the boards. He ripped them for me too.

I flipped and arranged the boards so that any grain runout opposes itself.

I will do the glueup soon.

(Photo contrast enhanced so you can see the grain.)

[BrendaEM]

I did a side view drawing from the front one.
I am using a rounded heel, and a volute.

The neck thickness in the drawing is 25mm at the 1st fret, tapering to 26mm at the 12th.

The body oultine now has a flat area for a set neck.

I am going to make the peghead .6" (15.24mm) thick, which seems a happy medium for sperzel bass and guitar tuners.

I still need to work in the neck joint, check the neck adjustment access, and check some basses for thickness.

[PhoBucket]

When you use a volute, do you still need to make a scarf joint?

Is is necessary to use bass tuners and guitar tuners, or will the sperzel mini-machines work on all strings?

[BrendaEM]

The volute makes the weakest area stronger, but I think that the scarf joint would make the wood grain oriantation better, and the flat of the headstock stronger.

Though, it all depends on its glue joint. I don't want to make such a critical joint when I think the one piece joint will do well. I am not doing a scarf joint in the headstock, and am betting on it. I will just have to remember not to just toss the instrument in the corner when I am through with it, or it would have a classical Les Paul headstock break.

I am going to make the neck angle minimal because I just need the strings to stay in the nut, perhaps I will back it off a bit.

As a tapper who doesn't play open strings, I don't need firm contact between the strings and the nut/headstock. I think a tap guitar would sound better if they were isolated, and the ghost note dampened.

I don't think the guitar tuners would work well for bass strings. I had a custom set made with all guitar buttons, so they look the same and aren't too heavy.

[traktor]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
I don't think the guitar tuners would work well for bass strings. I had a custom set made with all guitar buttons, so they look the same and aren't too heavy. Guitar tuners, if of high quality and with a good ratio, work fine for bass strings, and are not particularly difficult for your fingers.

You may need to drill out the tuner's hole a bit to take bass strings greater than .080W, but a Dremel makes quick work of that.

[BrendaEM]

I am using Spezels. Because Sperzels are locking, the winding peg is hollow, and I don't want to drill them. Their bass tuners aren't much heavier than their guitar tuners.

[I measured some Sperzels. The undrilled hole ID (string size) for Sperzel bass tuners are .127 (3.23mm), the guitar tuners are about .057 (1.46mm).

The guitar tuners have a .80 (1.95mm) tall winding groove around the tuning barrel, making the thinest part of the barrel .172 (4.37mm).]

Things to do: abolish the SAE fractional measuring system.

[rjgoos]

I used the El-Chee-Po tuners from guitarpartsusa.com:

http://www.guitarpartsusa.com/item--Tuning-Machine-Black-3-3--PROD313

They'll stretch a 0.065 string well enough, but anything bigger is a strain. Will a gear fail eventually? Maybe..but hey, I had to buy 12 to make an 8-string tapper, so I have four in reserve!!

But my goals have been low, low cost, and ease of construction (given my limited shop skills and toolage). Folks like Brenda and Fredrik are going for the top-of-the line, and are not compromising on parts.


Jay

[BrendaEM]

Parts are just a personal preference. I just like the Sperzels because I they clamp the ends of the strings and hold them while you are winding them.

I am sure the Guitar Parts tuners won't fail unless you are really mean to them.

[PhoBucket]

Brenda,

How did you determine whether you needed 1 or 2 trussrods? Is there some rule, or even rule of thumb?

[BrendaEM]

I don't believe there is a rule of thumb, though often 12 string tapping instruments seem to have two rods. I haven't seen an 8 string instrument with two rods yet.

I am going to use one two-way adjustable trussrod, and two carbon reenforcements.

I knew someone who made a great bass with no adjustable rod in it. There were just a few laminations of carbon. I am not so brave.

I wish someone made a titainium two way adjustable rod. I have been loooking at the Stewmac rod, trying to figure out how to replicate it in Ti, but I heard it's very difficut to solder Ti. It would have to be welded. The weld would have to be immaculate to work.

[PhoBucket]

Why would you want Ti? Weight savings? Would a carbon fiber or aluminum truss rod work? I think I spend to much time looking at bicycles. Hmmm...

[BrendaEM]

Ti is about 40% lighter than steel, but it has excellent tensile strength.

Carbon's interesting, but it's is a little brittle for bendie stuff. It would either work great--or break. Perhaps fiberglass would be a nice compromise.

There would have to be a stud inserted in either one or both ends of the rod. Those would go into the block.

I don't know if you can tap (thread) fiberglass, or carbon. If you could, then you could bond in the studs.

I also don't know how much tension or pressure the rod makes.]

I am going to reseach a two-way single rod, but for a beginner it looks harder to impliment.
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/TrussRods/TrussRodAdj/tradj.html

There is a Ti rod here, but it appears only to be single acting:
http://www.k-t-s.com/bridge.html

[PhoBucket]

Brenda, any progress to report?

[BrendaEM]

Sorry, I had been away for 12 days for "vacation" on a desert playa, which slowed progress, but not as much as the expense did. I also just finished rebuilding my electric scooter motor.

Last month, I had some "unplesentness" when I asked someone to plane the spruce. I marked the board "Plane only," but when he planed it, he planed off the warning--and ripped it into strips as well as the neck wood. It was a real sad moment for me. A few days later, my friend finally came through with his planer, so I wasted not only the wood but money. I need to find another piece of 8/4 spruce. Sigh.

At the top of the month, I will have some more money to get some more work done. Meanwhile I am going to finish the neck joint in the drawing.

I have been wondering about whether or not the rough neck profile could be cut before laminating the neck. It sounds strange, but if were done nicely, the neck blank(s) could be cut to profile with only a heavy-duty jigsaw like a Bosch. I was just investigating ways to save money.

I've been looking at bandsaws that have enough depth of cut to cut the neck. There is one at Sears, but I'm sure it has crappy rubbing blocks. http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00922432000&tab=spe&bidsite=CRAFT#tab

I don't know what's harder: walking past the neck blank on a daily basis, or resisting the temptation to ductape one of the Bartonini pickups on my guitar : P

[rjgoos]

Wow, that is really bad news, Brenda.

Jay

[PhoBucket]

Sorry to hear about the mishap, Brenda. Someday you'll be able to look back at that and laugh whilst tapping away at the Brendatar.

[BrendaEM]

I found someone kind enough to let me use his shop and tools. He seems nice, and is knowledgeable in woodworking. He seem interested in my project.

After planing the neck strips, I sanded each on both sides with 100 grit sandpaper and a sanding block. I sanded them enough to break the gloss, but not so much to spoil the flatness. I made two passes on each side at 45 degree angles, so there is plenty of bite for the glue.

I glued up the neck tonight! I used LMI glue. Lots of glue made lots of squeeze out, but I didn't want any voids. I used waxed paper underneath to keep from gluing it down.

I was going to use a brush, but he had suggested using a finger to spread the glue, and it was quicker.

Sorry I don't have pics yet.

I also used added 2 more frets to one of the fretboards. I used I digital vernier caliper to measure the frets. I didn't have a mitre box accurate enough to hold the saw, so I notched each edge of the fretboard, and hot-glued guides right to the fretboard. Then I held the saw against the guides. The fretboard had 25 frets, now it has 27.

When finished, the instrument will go as high as a 22 fret Strat with a low and reasonable string tension. I should have ordered the boards with 27, sigh.

[BrendaEM]

Sorry, just more drawings until the weekend.

I think I got the body scarf joint down. The body is going to split into three pieces. The neckthrough will blend into the body wood in the center, then traditional wings will be glued onto that. I will need to do a little chisel work to be able to have rounded corners. It's like a quick and dirty knockoff of a Warwick Dolphin deep set neck.
http://www.warwickbass.com/images/big_dolsn2.jpg

For the heel, it's kinda like a Steinberger GL or Les Paul.

The downsides of this construction: the top will have 2 seams, and the body has two inside radiused parts that will be very fragile until glued to the neck section. The positives are that I don't have to figure out a fixture to cut the scarf, and I can replace some heavy maple with the body wood. Most of it can be bandsawed, and the rest filed. The two circle things will be drilled out of the body and the rest removed with a chisel.

As seen from the sides, the scarf will have some thickness. It doesn't taper into a point, but if it did, it would come to a point at the bridge string ends.

I am going to make the joint smaller than the fretboard so it will hide well.

I gave this section a lot of thought--I hope I gave it enough.

[BrendaEM]

I think I have found a happy medium between the bass and guitar tuners.

[PhoBucket]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
I glued up the neck tonight!

Awesome. That sounds like the first real steps from hunks of wood to musical instrument. Looking forward to the pics. As a side note, this is turning out to be an incredibly informative thread. Maybe it can be condensed into an article when all is said and done.

[rjgoos]

All right Brenda! Sounds exciting.

Only those who have built their own can know the joy of stringing up your own instrument for the first time, and hearing the first sounds.


Jay

[BrendaEM]

It was pretty exciting unclamping the glued up blank. I am sorry, but I don't have a picture with all the clamps yet.

The dried glue drips were was so hard that a scraper barely scratched them. I used a flat Surform shaver, which shaved them easily.

We ran the blank through a planer several passes on both sides. When I sight down the blank, the flat looks straight within a milimeter over a 4 foot length.

The two small outside edges need to be ran through my jointer, as they never were.

I am very happy with the blank. I need to be careful with it now because a dent will make a glue gap when I match it to the body and fretboard. I will try not to drop the blank on my foot.

[traktor]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
I am very happy with the blank. I need to be careful with it ... I will try not to drop the blank on my foot. No, no! The foot is fine. Much better than the concrete floor.

Alas, I speak from experience.

[motormind]

That looks like a nice design. Traktor, can't you use it as an inspiration for your own instruments? I have been thinking about getting me a Megatar, but I am put off by their horrible looks - especially the headstock and clunky bridge.

[PhoBucket]

Give it time. I felt that way at first too. The design grows on you until you are eventually overcome with GAS. :eek:

[rjgoos]

The few pictures of the Megatar "in action" that I've found on the web, suggested that its looks were not so unusual:

http://homepage.mac.com/tap6/myron.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/tap6/dino.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/tap6/rev.jpg

But I think the thread was about Brenda's project.

Jay

[jamsire]

That looks like a nice design. Traktor, can't you use it as an inspiration for your own instruments? I have been thinking about getting me a Megatar, but I am put off by their horrible looks - especially the headstock and clunky bridge.

I've said this before - people can't see the instrument through their speakers.

The Megatar is a unique instrument. I've seen some serious un-inspiring instruments on this site, and Traktor's isn't one of them. Like I have also said before - I own two Megatars and two Sticks - I could easily own others.

Go with the tone. People are gonna stare, criticize regardless.

The only response we should be looking for is the smile on the audience's face when you blow them away - on whatever instrument you choose to play.

Gibson laughed at Les Paul's solid body idea.

hmph!!

Imagine that.

Jamsire

[motormind]

Originally posted by rjgoos
The few pictures of the Megatar "in action" that I've found on the web, suggested that its looks were not so unusual:

http://homepage.mac.com/tap6/myron.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/tap6/dino.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/tap6/rev.jpg



Hmmm. somehow those pics don't convince me at all ;) But The Megatar has quite a wide string spacing, which is good, since I have large hands.

[rjgoos]

Originally posted by motormind
Hmmm. somehow those pics don't convince me at all ;) But The Megatar has quite a wide string spacing, which is good, since I have large hands.


Actually, I have very small hands, and that was the only problem I had with the two Megatars I tried. I thought the feel of the strings on the neck was very nice, my hands just weren't big enough.

But I think this thread is supposed to be about Brenda's project.


Jay

[jamsire]

This thread is about Brenda's project. Which I find very bold and detailed.

I can barley glue paper together!

Any thread/ comment about other instruments should go into the Manufactured Instruments thread.

Hi Brenda! I'm Jamsire, and I must say I would prefer drop wood on someone else's foot.

[motormind]

Originally posted by jamsire
This thread is about Brenda's project. Which I find very bold and detailed.

I can barley glue paper together!

Any thread/ comment about other instruments should go into the Manufactured Instruments thread.

Hi Brenda! I'm Jamsire, and I must say I would prefer drop wood on someone else's foot.

Bull****. This is about instrument design. and while not directly related to her project it is of general interest which may feed back to her project after all. This will be a sorry forum when you squelsh every half-interesting discussion because it doesn't meet some template 100%. If you'd like to get it "back on topic" you might try to ask how her design relates to that of a Megatar or other tapping instrument.

Anyway, I am so peeved about this that I thoroughly lost any interest in this topic whatsoever. I wish Brenda well with her project, but I'm out.

[BrendaEM]

As a stroke of good fortune, my friend had a piece of thick spruce kicking around in his garage where it's been drying for years.

The wood is so light that I changed the drawing, making the bridge end longer to attempt to keep the balance. I am no longer worried about the weight of the pickups. The bridge to end of lower bout is almost as long as a Strat.

I/we (my first time using a surface planer) planed the body wood.

There were a few knots in the wood. After making sure it would work out, I layed out the three sections of the guitar body. The two wings were layed out along the jointed edges.

I bandsawed the wings out. The space between the upper and lower bouts was notched so the blade could make the turns.

The center section (not) pictured, is going to be some work, because it has to be joined with the neck.

The battery compartment will go in back ala Mark Warr's design because I want room to put a piezo soundboard transducer (http://www.schattendesign.com/guitar.htm) just beyond the bridge (someday.)

(OT: We are guests here on Tracktor's forum, and I applaud the fact that this forum is open to all tap guitarists. I think that he has done a fine job keeping the forum neutral. As guests, I would hope that all of our comments would be tasteful and tactful. During the course of our bickering, I hope we remember how prejudiced we can be to the appearance of an instrument, and how easy it is to fall into hearing with our eyes. The Megatar is an affordable guitar costing little more than the parts and the few tools that I am investing in the one I am making.

Please keep your comments on topic from here on. Thanks.)

Notice how shiny the surface is after planing. The plane has nice sharp blades. I am really lucky to have access to my friend's tools--and his advice : )

[traktor]

The body you drew looked good, but somehow it's easier to see it when it's been cut out of wood. This is coming along quite nicely, showing the steady progress, changes along the way, and careful planning.

While it's true that Mobius is a sponsor (for hosting costs), a number of volunteers are responsible for design and ongoing operation. Tappistry is designed to accomodate a wide range of interests and opinion, because the value of any forum is its content. The emergence of builder threads here shows how interesting this info can be.

And for motormind, it seems to me that folks are not trying to scold or stifle, but rather to honor Brenda and her thread for her work, and her careful reportage, which is helpful. So you need not take offence.

Brenda, I'd have had the instinct to glue the 'body wings' to the neck before cutting the body shape. What's your plan for clamping when you do glue it on?

[BrendaEM]

It is normal to join the body before the wings, but the billet of wood had a few knots that I had to work around. I had to know where they were.

At the top edge of each wing (inner horn), there is an area that must be flat so the T shape from the neck can butt against it squarely.

The wood is soft, and I need to be very careful when clamping it all together. I still wonder if it's really cedar. It's hard to tell because it's been drying in the rafters of a dry San Jose garage for years. It's much darker and redder in the picture, though.

[jamsire]

I just can't build or fix anything. I hate Home Depot, I like Circuit City better.

Brenda, what pickups will you be installing along with the piezos? Curious.

MIDI?

Do you have an estimate on the final weight? Always a determining factor as we all age. :mad:

Do you also have specific amplification in mind as well?

As you can tell - I'm intrigued.

[BrendaEM]

I have a pair of Bartolini M56cx quad coil bass pickups (cx=wound brighter.) They are considered expensive, but they still cheaper than buying twice as many standard humbuckers. I didn't know this before, but even though they are in the catalog, they were custom order. They took three months turnaround.

The guitar will only have a volume, pickup selector, preamps, and a battery inside. I may make some of these preamps (http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/).

I can barely afford the parts to make this thing, so buying an premade instrument was out of the question.

I think the weight will be a little lighter than some tappers, but at the cost of using a relively soft body wood.

[BrendaEM]

I cut the scarf joint today.

I layed it out with fine .5mm mechanical pencil, and used a ruler to maker sure the markings were straight. The template can bend becase it's thin in places.

I didn't want the templates and straightedge to move, so I actually taped them to the wood while I was marking.

Because the neck is in some angles too long to fit in the bandsaw, I had to make the small top cut with small Japanese-style saw. I clamped a woodblock at the cut line to hold the saw square.

I cut the rest with a bandsaw with a resawing blade. Cutting across the neck with a bandsaw is tricky business because the wood has to fit together, and be square. I left some extra wood to adjust the jointline.

[BrendaEM]

The bodywood will cover the neckwood from in front. The edges will be covered by the wings. The seam on the top will be covered by the fretboard.

[rjgoos]

Brenda, I hope that you will consider putting all of this into some sort of web site, when you are done...showing all the steps, etc. It has been very interesting to watch this develop.


Jay

[jamsire]

The progress in watching the instrument develop has been great.

I still feel like a chump.:mad:

I can only build a reputation.

[BrendaEM]

Jasmire, when I was little, we were so poor that if you wanted anything, you had to make it yourself...wait, that's still happening : O

[dr_scrimshaw]

Cool project, I love this thread. A while ago there was a post regarding neck reinforcement, here is my 2c.

Carbon fiber can be tapped. As for 2 truss rods vs. 1, my thought as a civil engineer is this: Wood is not a homogeneous material. One side of the neck will be stronger than the other. With a single truss rod you run the risk that one side will move more than the other, even if the string tension were equal on both sides. 2 rods helps correct this.

I am a scrounger myself, and I have a bunch of carbon fiber rods that I use for experimenting with neck reinforcing. I happened to go by a bridge that included experimental carbon fiber and fiberglass reinforcing. There were dozens of scrap ~24 inch pieces of carbon fiber rods about 1/4" dia. and I picked up as many as I could carry. They are very stiff, and as light as the wood they replace.
However, if I didn't have those, I'd probably experiment with golf club shafts. Every once in a while you can find one at the salvation army for a few bucks. By the way, I made a tube amp "stack" for about $20 out of a tube radio and old speakers from the salvation army. Just keep your mind open and you'll find all kinds of materials you can substitute.

[rjgoos]

Regarding carbon fiber for reinforcement...

This material is universally heralded for its stiffness, and is used instead of steel for neck reinforcement by some guitar makers.

Here is my question...

People say that carbon fiber is "as stiff as steel", but is that statement based on equal mass, or equal cross-sectional area? There is a huge difference.


Jay


Rolla Missouri?!? Home of my favorite duo from the early 70s...Brewer and Shipley!!

[traktor]

For one of the prototypes made before production of Mobius Megatar began, I asked Ralph Novak to make a neck consisting of wood on both sides, with a strip of 1/8" graphite material in between.

In looks, it looked like a laminated neck where you have a thin strip of dark wood running down the middle, except that it was graphite of some kind. (He had a piece of something he'd got from, I think, Moses. The guitar-parts builder, not the guy in the Bible.)

The idea was that the stiff graphite would tend to provide a central 'fulcrum' around which the dual truss-rodded wooden halves of the neck would tend to rotate. My thought was that when *both* trussrods were pulling, the graphite would slightly bend, but when *one* trussrod was pulling more than the other, it would give a way to nicely flatten out any tendency of the neck to twist from one end to the other.

Results --
It basically worked, and looked nice. The graphite, though very thin, was quite resistant to bending, and so it both held the neck straight and reduced the truss-rods' ability to move the neck. The rotation thing appeared to work, though Ralph's neck remained quite straight and needed no real tweaking.

However, Ralph said he didn't ever want to make one like that again. Why? He said that the hard graphite was very hard on his tools.

We've found that, using purely wooden necks, dual truss-rods used differentially do seem to nicely manage both flattening and twisting when it occurs without the need for bulking up a central 'fulcrum' mid-neck, so I've experimented no further with the graphite strip in the middle.

To some extent, embedding a graphite rod into a central channel beneath the fretboard would probably provide much the same results and might be worth exploring.

I think Mark Warr has experimented with using carbon strips for tonal purposes, but I don't recall what the results were.

As I recall, Brenda's instrument is to have one central trussrod and what looks like two carbon rods. This will probably work just fine, but if it was me, I'd feel safer doing it the other way, with two truss-rods and one central carbon rod.

[BrendaEM]

Last weekend, I fitted the scarf joint. I drew the joint lines on the other side so I could bring the spruce down evenly. I used hand planes and surform tools to rough it in place. It took about 2 hours. I don't usually like doing things that require skill, but it was fun. Doing some of it called for planing against the grain.

I sanded it, and glued it up. I used 8 clamps and 4 little pieces of plywood to heep from dinging the spruce. The wax paper is a must for this kind of thing. It dried for a few days.

I released the clamps, and trimmed the ends in a power miter saw. I used a surform to shave the spuce flush with the edges of the blank.

I ran the blank though the planer a few times until the blades just touched the maple.

I finished the neck blank tonight. I can't believe how much work it was to make a 2x4! It has 5 pieces of maple and one of spruce.

[BrendaEM]

I've tried to resist this, but I am going to anyway...

Here is a mockup showing how the fretboard will cover the maple/spruce seam. I still need to make cheek cuts on either side of the neck, then the body wing seams will be partially under the fretboard.

You can see the tail of maple at the end of the lower bout. Technically, it's a neck through, but I traded a lot of maple for spruce. For reference, the balance point moved about 1-/14" inches or 3cm from the center of the blank.

Next, I need to do the truss rods, and the cheek cuts, then I can cut the neck.

From the body joint, there will be 8 frets on the body. The body will be 1cm narrower. The fretboard will be more narrow as well.

~

Some time ago, I met Bob Laramie (http://www.grandbandslam.com/gbs02hf/bassp.html), who made basses without an adjustable rod, and they were great! He laminated flat carbon in the neck. His bass was lighter than any other I have tried since. I am not that brave.

I am going to use two carbon rods (Like Carvin uses), and a Stewmac hotrod. I do wish I had something lighter. I tried to figure out how to make a quick and dirty Ti rod, but I couldn't come up with something good. The neck is a 5 pieces of quartersawn neck. I don't think it will warp much.

Carbon would be okay for an adjustable rod, but fiberglass might be better because I think it's more flexible, but at the cost of not being as stiff.

Threading it wouldn't be fun, and I don't think that neither carbon nor fiberglas would make a nice working thread, so I think that something would need to be threaded into/onto it, and that would be threaded to bear the adjusting process.

[jamsire]

You're awesome Brenda.

Marrried too!

Damn!

[BrendaEM]

I routed slots for the carbon rods using a router table. My friend and I made a makeshift fence because the bit and slots are far away from the fence. You can't see this in the picture, but when I routed one of the slots, the piece wandered off a bit, about ".02 or around .5mm. There was resistance when I dropped the rod in, so I rerouted another pass so the rod dropped right in without help. The carbon is supposed to help preserve the original flatness of the neck blank--not change it.

I taped over the area around the slots with masking tape.

I sanded the rods outdoors with 100 grit sandpaper, and sanded the slots with 60 grit, to roughen everything up so that it will stick. I wiped off the rods with a paper towel to remove the carbon dust.

I mixed up some epoxy, and bonded them in. I removed the masking tape, and passed a knife over the epoxy to trim it while it was still soft.

I recommend placing the leftover epoxy outside on a stone or concrete suface until it sets. I have seen large masses of mixed/catalized resin make enough exotheric heat to smoke, crack and throw pieces out of a cup.

Epoxy is for keeps. It is very difficult to disassemble anything bonded with epoxy. The fibers in the rod are made of carbon and epoxy, so what better thing to bond them in with?

To do: Write hidden messages under fretboard : )

[PhoBucket]

Brenda, forgive me for asking a very elementary quiestion, but how do you calculate the the proper angle of a perfectly straight neck/FB in relation to the bridge. Perhaps I'm not phrasing this in the best way. I have seen bolt-on necks that have been shimmed to adjust the angle that the strings will contact the bridge, with either a steeper or shallower angle, depending on the players preference. I don't think this kind of adjustment is possilble on a neckthrough instrument, so I'm wondering how you get it right the first time. Does this question make any sense?

Also, does your router bit point up or down? (ie are you dropping the neck onto the router, or the router onto the neck)

Thanks,
Ben

[BrendaEM]

On a neck-through type guitar, you can't adjust the relief on upper frets. Fortunatley, the angle of the strings as they break from the bridge to the upper frets is steeper than it is for the lower frets.

On bolt-on guitars, the neck needs to be shimmed into alignment with the body because they are two pieces. Personally, I don't think that this is a feature. Though, bolt-ons can join dissimalar woods, and they often have good attack because they have a lot of overlapping material where the neck meets the body.

On Les Pauls, the neck angled because the Tunomatic bridge is so tall--or is that the other way around.

Without the fretboard, the neck on the instrument I am making is flat. Becasue the neck under the fretboard is not proud or stand off from the body, I will probably have to inlet the bridge so that it sits low enough to be adjusted.

When I routed the channels, I lowered the neck onto the bit. I try to keep the neck square to the table as I lower it. The bit in the router table faced up.

[I put beginning and ending marks on the neck, and marked on the fence where the bit is. I went a hair off because I was too concerned with keeping the neck flat, and not worried enough about keeping it against the fence. This is relitievly safe way to rout because the bit isn't facing you. I shut off the router and let it come to a stop before lifing the piece.]

[PhoBucket]

Thanks. That answered my questions perfectly. I hadn't thought about sinking the bridge into the body. They did that on old Spector basses.

[PhoBucket]

Happy Thanksgiving, Brenda. Hopefully the long weekend will give you a chance to post more progress pics ;)

[BrendaEM]

I routed the neck for the adjustable truss rod. It was tricky.

The relief had to be go far enough toward the head of the guitar to get the wrench started (picture), then it slides into the broached hex opening, so it has to go far enough toward the bridge too.

[BrendaEM]

The opening has to have enough side clearence to move the wrench.

[BrendaEM]

Here is a photograph of the opening with the truss rod moved aside. I will need to do some work with the fretboard too.

A lot of the headstock will be removed, and the rod will be covered by the fretboard. The left rounded end of the rout will probably be milled off. There won't be a cover.

(Thanks PhoBucket : )

[rjgoos]

Brenda,

How wide will the fretboard be (say, at fret 12) when you are done? Perhaps I've got the whole persepective thing wrong, but when I look at these pictures, the neck seems way wide to me for an 8-string instrument.



Jay

[BrendaEM]

I haven't cut the neck out, so the whole neck is still as wide as the head.

The neck will be wider because I am making it for uncrossed playing. The string spacing will be 10mm at the nut, and 12mm at the bridge.

Nearest I can tell, the neck will be 87.2mm or 3.43 inches wide at the 12th fret. There will be 5mm from the outside strings, and the edges of the fretboard.

[PhoBucket]

Thanks for the update, Brenda.

I think these shots clear up a fundamental misconception I had about how truss rods work. I always thought that when you tightened a truss rod it would pull on the neck (contract) to straighten the neck. From these pictures, it looks like the truss rods straightens the neck by pushing (expanding).

Will the headstock be angled or parallel to the neck?

[BrendaEM]

The same (double acting / twin ) rod will bend the rod either way depending on which you install it. If you flip it over, the bend is reversed.

Single rods work differently; they pull tight, pushing against a curved part of the neck channel, bending the neck.

Double rods work be changing the length of one of the rods, causing one of the two rods to warp, which pushes against the channel, or fretboard, bending it.

The headstock will be angled, about 10 degrees, because that is what my neck-blank will allow. As far as I am concerned, as long as there is enough downward string tension to keep the strings in the nut, then that's enough for me.

I don't think that tap guitars that played with a dampner need very much tilt-back. The more the sustain between the nut and fretted note, the more you will hear ghost notes.

At the string nodes, the wave can go right under your fingers, and reach the nut. Theroretically, the wave can pass the nut and reach the tuners, and come back. Some engineers wrap the strings between the nut and tuners with cloth to prevent this. It makes a case for the headless guitar. The fact that the sound can go travel though the nut one way, (tine-sound like in the introduction of Van Halen's: Running with the Devil) tells me that the can go the other way too. The ends of piano strings have cloth woven between them too.

[PhoBucket]

With the headstock cut on an angle to the wood, there will be some grain runout, right? Does this affect the strength of the headstock?

[BrendaEM]

Yes. I am hoping that the volute will help keep it strong. Not dropping it will go a long way too.

[BrendaEM]

I made the cheek cuts on the neck. The crosscuts were made with a small handsaw and a block of wood clamped so the saw stayed square. The rip cuts were made with a bandsaw with a resawing blade. I am in the process of truing the edges I cut. The wings aren't glued yet.

Making sure that the construction process is as strange as can be...I drilled three little holes under the fretboard. I used a little metal point to mark the underside of the fretboard. I cut a few lengths of—toothpick to put in the holes. Now I can take the fretboard on and off at will. It's a variation of a staple trick used for keeping fretboards straight while glueing.

The fretboard has to come on and off because I am blending the fretboard to the neck, and I don’t want to cut into the metal trussrod with a wood-cutting bandsaw blade.

I (hope I) am going to taper the fretboard to size, and then trace it onto the neck, then I can cut the neck outline, which will be about 5mm wider than the body seams.

[PhoBucket]

Brenda,

It would be neat to see some of the special tools or jigs you created for this project. Did you practice on cheap wood before doing the routing on the neck? Or have you used a router before this project?

[BrendaEM]

PhoBucket, I am going to make routing templates for pickups, and other hardware, but as of yet, I haven't made anything special. I have used a router table before, but there are three channels. I found that I had to take breaks here and there, because I used a great deal of effort to keep the neck against the fence.

I did use scrap for testing the router table setup, to make sure the depth was good, and it was in the middle. Practice for something like that is good too.

[BrendaEM]

I laid out the side of the neck using my drawings. I used a straightedge to complete the lines. Most measurements have been made from either the centerline, the nut line, the body joint start or the 34 inch bridgeline.

You might be able to see how I cut the templates so they hang over the edge of the neck blank.

[BrendaEM]

I squared up the bandsaw, and cut the neck. This is the part I hate doing. The cut is over 4 inches deep, but only 1-3/4 wide. It's easy to make a mistake here. Not letting the blade relax from the bearings can make it cut too far. If the neck is tiled 2 degrees, it makes a notch; if it's tilted 5 degrees the neck is firewood.

Notice the relief cuts I made. The blade is a resawing blade, and it makes slow turns.

I made a lot of X's to make sure I was cutting on the correct side of the line.

[BrendaEM]

The neck seems like it's going to be okay. The neck taper was cut after this picture was taken. The neck is much lighter : )

[BrendaEM]

I needed a flat tool to work on the fretboard and the edge of neck. I found a level for less than $20. It has an edge that is machined quite flat, flat enough to use for fret dressing. It's alluminum, so I can't scrape the tape off with anything metal, or it will ruin it.

I put double-stick carpet tape on it, and placed cut strips of sandpaper to it. I cut the sandpaper joints at an angle so that it runs nice and true. I guess you could use it for a level too : )

[BrendaEM]

Using a half-round Stanley Surform shaver, I did some premiminary neck shaping. If you only buy one of these tools, I'd recommend buying the half-round. I also used a lot of round tools to make flats because they can dig into the maple, but tools like the flat-edged Surform has too much surface area to push into the wood.

Because I had sawn the neck side taper. I needed to lay out the side of the neck. I did this on both sides. I shaved the neck down following the lines. I often went straight across the gain to make sure the profile is good, and then diagonally. As long you aren't running the thing uphill against the grain, it cuts nice.

In the photo, the blade is reversed in the holder, so I can pull it.

[BrendaEM]

You can visualize a curve/neck radius as a infinite series of flats. I measured out some lines that will start the neck curve, and then I flattened a bevel between each line.

The I drew lines between, and shaved off that area.

[BrendaEM]

The heel was fun.

[BrendaEM]

I retraced the neck edge with the temple, and trimmed it with the Surform, and files.

[BrendaEM]

This is how rough the neck was after bandsawing. I recommend leaving a lot of material to grind. I got too close, and almost wasted a lot of work.

[BrendaEM]

I am checking the front of the neck with a straightedge. You might be able to see light under the center.

[BrendaEM]

I waited until today to start on the fine stuff. For me, I can't do detail stuff after hacking away at the neck.

Today, did the edge sanding--using the level. I got as close to the line as I dare, for fear that I might round the edge over, and ruin the joint.

I clamped the fretboard on, and kept the clamps from digging into the body joint edge using stiff cardboard.

[You can see that the heel is done. Sorry about the messy photo.]

[BrendaEM]

You can make something straight within a milimeter over the length--with hand tools. The level seemed to have worked.

[Left shoulder is sore!]

[PhoBucket]

Brenda, this thread is really inspiring. I printed out the whole thing and am going to pick up some scrap wood for practice tonight. Seeing the process broken down into so many detailed steps really makes it look much more manageable.


The finished neck looks maahvelous. Are you going to use a drill press to make the tuning machine holes?

[BrendaEM]

PhoBucket, thanks for the thread comment.

Yes I am going to use a drillpress.

I am still working on the neck, playing around with the shape. I am making it kinda thick and flat on the edge of the neck closest to the player, so I have something to push against.

[rjgoos]

Mr. Phobucket,

I can only say, that there has been for me, no thrill like stringing up a home-made instrument, to hear it come to life and sing for the first time.

Brenda has certainly paid the dues (and we are all in her debt for sharing the process with us), and I can guarantee everybody here, that the first time she hears her instrument, either through an amp, or through a pair of headphones...that all....all....of the effort will have been worth it, just for that first moment.

Those of you who have built your own instruments, know what I mean.



Jay

[jamsire]

:) Just absolutely amazing Brenda.

I'm learning about this whole thing by reading this thread. I have considered - through a possible early onset of a mid-life crisis - learning about learning guitar repair and building. Thanks for the inspiration.

[BrendaEM]

I changed my mind, and decided to drill the tuners out using a hand drill. I wouldn't have attempted it, but this drill has a level in the back that shows when I am pretty-much level.

I did a test in scrap to see how the drill bit fits the holes. Wood extands, so I want them a little loose. I also tested the bass-indexing pin location, but I should have tested the guitar pin hole because it was about a milimeter off. I need to update the drawing!

I marked and punched the hole places, and circled the big holes. I made lines that seperated the bass, and guitar tuners, because there are four different sized holes.

I clamped the neck down on the bench at an angle on top of a board so when I punch through, it will minimized splintering. I used a stool, so I had a good view over the level.

I predrilled small pilot holes, and then counterbored with brad-pointed bits.

I used masking tape flags, so that I didn't drill the index holes too deep. I was able to apply a little English to the guitar pin holes so they line up well.

[BrendaEM]

I am glad that part is over. Thanks everyone, for the moral support.

[PhoBucket]

Looks great, Brenda. Did you decide to nix the aerodynamic speed hole in the headstock?

[rjgoos]

Brenda, I know that you probably mentioned this, but please refresh my memory...

What brand/model of tuning gears did you use? Also, what size hole did they take?

Thanks,

Jay

[BrendaEM]

I have been worried about breaking the head. I am not sure if I am going to add the lightening hole.

The tuners are Sperzel's locking type. There are four bass and four guitar ones. All have standard sized guitar buttons on them--no bass buttons. If I make another instrument, I'd use the mini buttons on them.

There is a lot of Sperzel info here:
http://www.tkinstruments.com/id94.htm
http://www.tkinstruments.com/id75.htm

The guitar and bass holes are different, and so are the roll pins.

If you make custom sets, I'd recommed making sure that they understand exactly what you want. I sent a drawing. I ordered mine from Sperzel.

[BrendaEM]

Before the wings/sides can be glued on, this area has to be nice and square where it meets the body. Also, the curve area is much easier to sand now than later.

[BrendaEM]

I taped off as much as I could, and cordoned off areas in waxed paper. I left a little area to check the seams to maker sure they were even.

[BrendaEM]

I spread glue on both sides of the joint. After a moment, it became clear to me that I should only do one at a time. These pipe clamps are totally unappropiate for this kind of glueup. You need something with pads that will grip the wood. You also need not to have to shim the piece. Bar clamps would be okay, as long as they cannot turn, and as long as they have pads that are firmly attached.

[These pipe clams are too heavy, and tended to fall off even if they were turned so hard that I risked cracking the wood. The two cast clamp parts twisted on the pipe. The clamping mechanism is too bulky to use multiple clamps. Too much room is required to turn the screw handles. I don't have enough 4-letter words to describe the user experience for these pipe clamps. There is no crucible hot enough for them. I will never ever use them again.]

Moved the guitar in the kitchen to dry. It sounds like one piece now. I peeled back the paper a little to maker sure the wings were level with the body.

[BrendaEM]

I did some sanding. This is the back. The body edges haven't been rounded yet. The tail still needs to be trimmed and rounded.

[BigDaddyPoo]

Wow what a great thread!

You are doing a great service to aspiring builders like me. I was a chapman stick player for 10 years and sold my only stick ( which Traktor sold me ) a year ago to help pay for school. I wish I had never done this now, despite the fact that I sold it for 3 times what I payed for it, and 600 dolars more than a new stick costs.

Now I have finally collected all of the tools to build my own which is an exciting prospect to me!

The main problems I have encountered in collecting parts are in the fields of pickups and bridges.

I am going to try winding my own pickups before I order custom Bartolonis like you have done because of price constraints. I have found some great info on the web in regards to this. If anyone wants some links just let me know.

Bridges are another question all together.

Brenda what is your solution?
8-string bridges are very expensive.
I have found single string bridges by ABM which let you set any string spacing you wish. Another approach would be to use standard bridge saddles mounted on a custom made L bracket ( a cheaper alternative to having the entire bridge custom machined ). This is an approach that Traktor has taken in his instruments, though I would probably put each saddle on its own base plate to allow me to try different string widths, like a single string bridge.

Keep up the good work!

BigDaddyPoo

[BrendaEM]

BigDaddyPoo,

I am not sure what I am going to do, but another alternative is to use Wilkison VS-100 Saddles on a custom drilled plate. You would need string ferrels of some kind.

I wish I could make something like a Naimish Bridge:
http://www.bassplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=13&storycode=91
Their site is down.

[I am not looking forward to doing the bridge. Thirty-four inches is still thirty-four inches, but I don't want to go all this way and make an instrument that cannot intonate. I bought a really nice stainless steel rule. It's one of those things: check 1,000 times drill once.]

[BrendaEM]

I measured from the last fret (#27) on each side. Because the the neck is now tapered, I glue-gun glued two little blocks to the edge to use as guides.

I trimmed the end of the fretboard with an x-Acto saw, which was needlessly fine. Perhaps a Japanesse-type woodworking saw would have done just as well, and taken half the time.

Using a handsaw, I trimmed the body. I rounded it with a Surform, and then 36, 100, and 220 grit paper. It's should be smooth enough to rout.

I am trying to keep the instrument in good shape while I work on it. As I work on this thing, I have to be increasingly careful with it. The more I bump it into things, the more I have to sand it, or steam out the dents. I set it on bubble wrap or draw liner when I am not working on it. Putting a ding in the front is bad becasue it's in the same plane as the fretboard. The more I sand the front, the more I need to correct the fretboard.


If you look close, you can see a few pin-knots between where the pickups will go. It's wood.

[BigDaddyPoo]

You should look into the ABM single string bridges also. They are pictured below in action on a tapping instrument ( don't remember who made it ).

Here is a source ( Less than 20 bucks each! ):
http://www.guitarbuildingtemplates.com/non-tremolobridges.htm

A few companie like RMC make piezo saddles for this bridge. These can give you great high end detail, or when combined with a Graph Tech Ghost Hexpander Pre-Amp can be used to drive Roland guitar synths and V rigs.

About the carbon fiber reinforcement; did you put the rods in under pressure or are they simply slid into the grooves and glued in?

I look foreward in seeing how these work out for you since I can't decide between this and the double truss rod approach.

[BrendaEM]

Thanks for the ABM link. That's the best prices I have seen on them. I've been worried about string spacing on the bass ones, and I worry about string handling on the guitar ones, but that's a prett health string on that instrument. Hipshot makes something similar.

They have an advantage of being seperate so the bass doesn't muddy the treble as much.

They don't have black though.

[PhoBucket]

BigDaddy, please share some more pics of your instrument in the custom-built instruments gallery. I'd love to see it.

Brenda, this info may be helpful.

Correct bridge placement:
Bridge Placement (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212957&highlight=scale)

Building single string bridges:
This is from a poster name Mr8String on the Charlie Hunter forum. Unfortunately the pictures are no longer attached to the page, but you may be able to email him.

"That's simple because that's the width of the Graph Tech Strat saddles I used, and they are 10 mm each. So that will make 80 mm for all the saddle's together. It play's great, no problem with that. For the string width at the nut, Novax gives you the right information on his site (even the bass-scalelength!). His nuts are 2 1/16" wide, mine is a little bigger 54 mm (appr. 2 1/8"). His neck at the body is 2 7/8 ", that's the same for my guitar. Keep in mind that the strings should go in one straight line from the saddle to the tuners. Around this principle I build my neck. (Draw it out first and triple check!).

The saddles are quite easy to produce. Look at the drawing I attached. All you need is a L-shaped piece of brass in a length of 150 mm (that will give you 15 saddles when you make no mistakes). For the tools I used a metal saw, a square guide (piece of wood is also good), a handheld drill, (metal)files and (my thrusty) Dremel.
First I cut a piece of brass from the height because I need only 10 mm of brass. You need the length (35 mm) for the intonation. Than I draw a pencil-line for the first saddle. The width is 10 mm. Cut that out and be sure you keep the saw straight. If you won't make that, cut it out bigger and file the sides flat to 10 mm. Do that eight times.
The next step is drilling the holes for the screws and string-guiding. I did that just by hand, sharp drills will help. When you are finished with that, just screw the saddles one-by-one to a piece of wood, so you can drill the hole for the Graph Tech screw. This hole should be a little out of the center towards the top of the saddle, that will keep the tension off the screw when you adjust the stringheight. (Get the Graph Tech's at first so you can check everything out).
When you're done with all eight saddles, you can give the vertical stud a nice rounded edge (like Novax does). You only need a file and because brass works easily it won't take much time. I scribes a small circel on the side as a guidance.
At the end I polished everything with my Dremel and they still shine after 6 months. "

[GaryOpenhill]

The saddles are quite easy to produce. Look at the drawing I attached.


And where can we find this famous drawing, i wonder?

[PhoBucket]

Unfortunately, the pics were no longer on the forum. If you go to the forum page on charliehunter.com, you should be able to find the user "Mr8String". You could probably email or PM him if you need the pics. His custom instrument looked fantastic by the way.

His saddles were brass, so if Brenda is going for the all black hardware look she'll need to use something else.

[BrendaEM]

PhoBucket,

I feel that Strat-style saddles tend to move from side to side a little much for my liking. I might use the ABMs. I found a site that has them in Black for $21 each.

My strat is intonated at 1-2 cents at 25-1/2 to a little less than 25-11/16ths for the various strings, measured with a Alvin stainless rule. That's less than 1/4 variance. The bass strings are longest, perhaps to compensate for the diameter too.

I am not sure about the 12th fret automatically being more accurate than something measured from the nut. That accuracy would seem to depend on the accuracy of the fretboard, and how it was installed. I would tend to trust 24 fret guitar/bass people--even mandolin people more than I would trust the avareage acoustic guitar builder only becasue most acoustics guitars aren't usually played much over the 15th fret.

I want to do some real-world measuring on where basses intonate at, but I don't have any tapper to check. I would like to be able to measure from the nut.

[The nut width on my instrument is 80mm wide : ) ]

Thanks for all the food for thought everyone.

[PhoBucket]

I think they were saying that the most accurate way to judge scale length is to doublt the distance from the nut to the 12th fret, because the distance from the nut to the bridge varies due to intonation adjustments. I guess the real worry is that on a single plate style bridge you may run out of room for intonation adjustments. The amount of intonation correction required on basses is typically more than the amount required on guitars, although this may be less so on a tapping instrument. If you're using single string bridges like the ABMs, then you also have the option of slightly staggering the individual bridges.

Is there any reason not to use the guitar bridges for the bass strings? The only one that comes to mind is that you may have to use tapered or exposed core bass strings, but I think they intonate better anyway.

What will your string spacing be at the bridge?

[BrendaEM]

The string spacing at the bridge will be 12mm.

I have already bought a set of tapered core strings, because they are supposed to sound piano-like. I am also worried about the winding length and the bridge length.

I suspect that the bridge pieces will be mounted biased so they run more long than short(, but still run short too.) I need to do more research. I don't want to run out of intonation on a piece of wood--I have been cutting and glueing since August!

[traktor]

Originally posted by PhoBucket
... I guess the real worry is that on a single plate style bridge you may run out of room for intonation adjustments. The amount of intonation correction required on basses is typically more than the amount required on guitars. ... The intonation adjustment is greater on basses in terms of millimeters or inches, because the string lengths on basses are generally larger. (Ie: 34" compared to 25" is 36% longer.) In terms of percentage of string length, the intonation adjustments of bass strings may not be much greater.

However, for a fact, when you have both guitar strings and bass strings on the same instrument, you're going from very tiny to very big strings, and so the total difference in needed intonation is certainly greater than if you had just bass strings or just guitar strings.

It would work out just fine to use standard stratocaster plates -- 2 of them -- and to mount the bass plate about 1/4" further toward the butt of the instrument. That's about how much difference you need. However, I've never seen anybody do this, probably because it would look odd, seems to me.

If you're making your own bridge plate, then try for 1.5" of plate, and if you've located the plate correctly, then it should work out.

[BigDaddyPoo]

Brenda

Where did you find the Black ABMs?

Also, I knew that you didn't have alot of the required tools to build this instrument, but did you have any prior experience working with ( esp. shaping ) wood?

I also want to point out to everyone that the image that I posted above is not of my instrument, just something I downloaded for inspiration for my own project. You can see more photos of this instrument as well as a detailed photos of a variety of other tapping instruments here:

http://www.tapguitar.com/equipment.html

[rjgoos]

Ola's site has been an inspiration to many of us, Dan. I well remember coming upon this site, and realizing that the world of two-handed tapping was MUCH bigger, and therefore MUCH more interesting, than I had previously realized.


Jay

[BrendaEM]

BigDaddyPoo,

I found the black ones just here, or far: http://www.internetmusicsupply.com/ims/a0003.HTM

I didn't have access to big tools at first, but I found a friend nice enough to let my use the tools in his shop.

I do have some woodworking/metalworking experience, and I do make mistakes, botches, and complete oversights. It's hard to make only one of something, and get it right.

[BrendaEM]

After the edges were smooth, I used a router and a round-over bit to round them. I left the horn, and vestigial remain of horn unrouted. The body is not hardwood, and because I don't round bodies every day, it would be too easy for me to chip these areas. I could only get so close to the fretboard anyway.

[BrendaEM]

I used files and sandpaper to smooth over the routed edges. If you go the wrong way at the wrong time, soft wood can peel like a hang-nail, where other woods might crack or chip.

I temporarily attached (it lines up with toothpick pins, remember?) I taped off the area around the fretboard with 3 layers of thick masking tape.

[BrendaEM]

I used the Surform, a Dremel tool, files, and sandpaper wrapped around sockets tools to shape the horns. I found that 36-grip paper is great for shaping. I don't worry about the grain much until I get below 100-grit. I try to use a woodblock wherever I can. I even use round files for making flat areas, and round files for making inside curves.

When doing things like this I will stop when I get close, clean up the bench and walk away for a few hours. When I feel relaxed and rested, I return to fuss over the details.

[BrendaEM]

In some harsh light, you might be able to see the shape I wanted. If I change the light position, I can see things that I can't see--in good lighting : ) It's like a Foucault tester.

Mark Warr's guitar is more gracefully arced from one horn to the other, whereas I wanted a lot of room for my thumb. The player's thumb can slide up the fretboard and over the body.

Even though I made the horns large, there is a limit to what can be scooped out when using soft wood, before making the instrument fragile.

I hacked my old Carvin like this, some years ago. Most neck-through guitars can be hacked like this for easier touch-playing, ruining their value, but making for less cramped hands.

I scooped out the long strap horn (upper in photo) just enough so that it imparts the look and feel of the other one. I wanted to suggest symmetry, but not weaken the horn.

[You can see toothpick fretboard alignment pin, by its shadow.]

[BrendaEM]

I am using commercial strapbuttons, but I am attaching them using #10-32 brass inserts, which I found at Orhard Valley Hardware.

The inserts have a nice coarse woodthread on the outside.Using a triangle file, I cut lengthwise grooves to try to get them to cut the wood as they go in.

I needed to drill the strapbuttons larger. I wound them with tape to try to protect them. They are actually steel, and not brass as I thought.

I drilled pilot holes for the inserts, and enlarged them. I put a drop of glue on each one, just for good measure.

There is a special driver for them, but a standard screwdriver can work if you are careful. If you have too mcuh resistance, perhaps you should drill the holes larger, so the wood doesn't split.

I used a little plastic washer to go easy on the wood.

[BrendaEM]

I placed the non-horn one where it is a little flatter, and the angle is perpendicular to the strap angle.

Somehow, I missed on this excellent opportunity to split and crack the body.

[BigDaddyPoo]

Brenda-

You will have plenty of opportunities to crack the body later. Don't dwell on the negatives! :)

Where'd you get the graphite for the neck? Did you have to custom order the size you got? Also, can you give any details on the differences between your approach with the two small rods ( 1/4 inch rods?) and the truss rod, and your friends approach with no truss rod? Did he use different sized rods, or more of the smaller ones?

Sorry for all the questions! I just want to know all of my options while I'm still buying materials.

Looks great so far, keep up the good work!

[BrendaEM]

BigDaddyPoo, all three truss rods were from Stewert-McDonald. I think they give just a little stiffness, and slow down the movement of the wood from moisture. If you sand carbon fiber, I would suggest using a mask, gloves, and eye protection. It is far more irritating than working with fiber glass. The dust feels like fine broken windshield glass.
I think carbon-fiber stiffening bars are best bonded in with epoxy.

[I really wanted a dual-adjustable rod such as Stewmac's, but made of titainium, but I couldn't figure out how to attach the adjusting nuts. It's supposed to be very difficult to braze/silver solder Ti. It would have to be welded--immaculately.]

Someone had an idea of making an adjustable rod from carbon, but I think it would be difficult to make the threaded ends work without occasional bonding failures.

The person who made non-adjustable bass necks, made them using many thin strips of carbon-fiber, laminated in the neck.

I may try a non-adjustable neck on another instrument, but I would put about 1/2" x 1" bar of carbon-fiber in there. I am sure there are ways to figure out how much deflection there would be.

I would not bother making an instrument neck out of any wood that isn't quartersawn.

[rockola]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
I would not bother making an instrument neck out of any wood that isn't quartersawn. An opinion shared by many, but not all, e.g. Fender. Many of their necks are anything but on the quarter.

Flatsawn wood can be resawn, rotated 90 degrees and laminated to make it effectively quartersawn. I believe at least one major tapping instrument manufacturer makes most if not all of theirs this way.

[BrendaEM]

To make true quatersawn wood, you would often need to rotate the wood about 45 degrees, but even riftsawn would be better than flatsawn. I have seen a couple of projects with resawn wood.

Fender's Eric Johnson Strat is supposed to have a quartersawn neck.

[BrendaEM]

I started making the nut. I bought 1 piece of 3/16" Delrin. I had to buy a 12" x 12" piece.

[Delrin/Acetel seems as hard as Acrylic/Plexiglass/Perspec, but it's not as brittle. It seems harder than Lexan/Polycarbonate, but not as flexible. Its main feature is that it's slippery.]

I put a piece of masking tape on it, and traced the radius of the fretboard. I added a little extra to the bottom.

[BrendaEM]

I cut out the blank with a hacksaw. Delrin is nice nice to cut.

[BrendaEM]

I sanded the bottom with #100 grit sandpaper. I pressed it against a wood block to keep the bottom square.

[BrendaEM]

Here is a pic of the roughed nut.

[BrendaEM]

Because the fretboard is tapered, it makes it difficult to place in a mitre box.

I have this setup more than once on my instrument. I measured along each edge, and gluegun glued 2 small pieces of scrap plastic (ABS) to the sides of the fretboard.

I used a X-Acto saw (but a Japaese woodworking saw, or even a hacksaw would work, perhaps faster) to cut the second nut slot in the fretboard. I chipped the area between out, and filed the rest.

In this picture I used the setup again to trim the end fretboard. When I am done, I twist off the plastic, and scrape the glue off the wood.

[BrendaEM]

I used a Dremel tool and a ball shaped bit to put a little detail on the end of the fretboard. This turned out to be fun. I filed what I carved, and sanded it with a piece of tube rolled in sandpaper.

[BrendaEM]

Using the Dremel, I carved out a relief for the trussrod nut in both the fretbaord and the neck. The relief must be long enough to accommodate the nut which becomes longer and shorter as the trusrod is adjusted.

[Neither fretboard nor nut are glued at this point. I also don't glue the fretboard alighnment dowels just in case I flatten or break one.]

[BrendaEM]

I drilled out the side fretboard markers. Although a small (1/8" 3mm) bradpoint bit might be hard to find, I should have found one because I managed to chip the fretboard a little. It's these little things that get to me.

I filed and sanded some scrap fretboard wood, and mixed it with glue to fix the chip.

I tried making a hole cutter out brass to make the side plugs, but it's too soft. I will keep an eye out for thin steel tubing. Perhaps auto brake line would work.

In a pinch, I sawed some strips of maple and rounded them using a Dremel tool and a mini drum sander. I used the fretboard sawdust and some glue to glue in the side dots. I turned the plugs so the grain matches.

I didn't want to use dowel stock because the grain run across the fretboard grain, and could crack it, in time.

[BrendaEM]

I trimmed the plugs by gently rocking the edge of a utility knife aganst them. I sanded them flush. I am actualy pleased with how they came out. When they are finished the markers will contrast a little more.

The fretboard is not glued yet.

[BrendaEM]

The router (borrowed) is fitted with a 3/8" pattern collet and baseplate (also borrowed, thanks.) The brass collet rides against the template. The template must be a certain distance larger than the hole you want to cut. Using collets has the advantage of being able to plunge-cut in steps, unlike bearing bits.

I made a router template from thin MDF. Actually I made two, but the fist one wasn't good enough. Anything that's in the template will be in the finished cut.

I measured it out, drilled a hole in each corner, and connected the holes with an electric sabre saw. I used the Dremel and a mini sanding drum to get close to the line, and finished up with files. I made some alignment marks so I get the pickup straight.

On these Bartolini pickups, the corner radius is smaller than 1/4" (4mm?) so: either the corners are tight, or the sides are. The moulded covers also taper slightly, getting wider at the bottom of the pickup.

I tested the template, and filed it a little more so there is some room for wood movement, and tested it again.

[BrendaEM]

(Oh the measuring!)

I extended each fretboard edge line, and divided that into two. I measured the fretboard at the nut, and divided that into two. I connected the marks as seen in the photo. That centerline let me measure the scale length.

I measured the scale bridge length, as the crow flies, with the fretboard on. I made a tic mark.

Now I have the scale length, and a line that I think is close to being in the center.

Using a square, I drew lines higher and lower than than my scale length tic mark. Now I have a rough centerline, and a square bridgeline.

I divided the distance from the fretboard edge lines into two, which gives me a pretty good centerline.

Sigh.

[BrendaEM]

I clamped down the router template. Notice that it is longer than it would seem to need be. You can also use double stick tape to hold it down.

Notice the earplug and safety glasses product placement. There is no sense making an instrument--if you can't hear it.

[BrendaEM]

I set the plunge stop on the router, and made a pass that was about 1/4" 4mm deep. I vacuumed out the chips--esspecially in the pass around the outside because they have nowhere to go. I weegie boarded the rest out, and made deeper passes.

If you have a drill press, you can pre-drill out the center.

[BrendaEM]

I turned the template around, and did the other pickup.

You can see the maple tapering in the cuts.

[BrendaEM]

I used a plug-cutter to make the top fretboard dots. After a long deliberation on where the strings would be, I drew where the strings should be on the fretboard.

(The grain of dowel-stock runs against the grain of the fretboard. If I used commercial dowel-stick the board might crack, and the endgrain might not look pleasing.)

I measured and divided each fret to find the center. I used an an automatic centerpunch, set on the lightest setting to mark the locations.

I used a brad-point drill bit and a drillpress to make the holes. Unfortunatly the plugs were a bit large, or the holes where a bit small. So I clamped each plug in a hemostat (medical clamp), and ran the sides down some medium sandpaper.

Because the plugs are wood, I marked the grain orientation on each, so they wouldn't crack the fretboard.

I used a mixture of glue and sanding dust to glue each in. I rolled them in the glue, and tapped them in with a small hammer.

[The plastic tray works better for the glue than cardboard, because it doesn't abosrb the water from it.]

[BrendaEM]

While the glue was in the plastic stage, I utility knife to trim each dot. The rough cutting went better when I used scalloped cutting movements that did not go along the fretbaord. When the dot is almost level, I ran a blade parallell to the top of the fretboard.

I lightly sanded the dots with the long makeshift level sander, trying to spare the fretboard because it hasn't been glued yet.

[BigDaddyPoo]

The wood dots look really cool!

Originally posted by BrendaEM
The rough cutting went better when I used scalloped cutting movements that did not go along the fretbaord. When the dot is almost level, I ran a blade parallell to the top of the fretboard.

Can you elaborate on what a scalloped cut is and what kind of blade you used when the dot was almost level?

[BrendaEM]

I used a utility knife to cut them, and cut with the grain at all times.I had the smallest amout of tear-out, but I think I can compensate when the fretboard is sanded.

I found that I cutting more vertical than horizontal at first, kind-of diagonal avoids splitting the wood, which sometimes creeps below the surface of the fretboard. I tended to turn the blade when I made the cut, and it made a nice scooped line.

When they were nearly flush, I shaved them close with a utility blade with tape on the back. A single edged razor blade or a very sharp chisel would be safer to use, but that's all I had. Please be careful messing with sharp things--esspecially when using pressure.

Wood has one advantage over shell inlays--it's thick. Shell is only .50" / ~2mm. I wanted thick inlays should I decide to give the fretboard a light scallop.

[Thanks for the comments, I was becoming afraid I was doing a monologue.]

[murphy]

What a great thread!

The last few photos are starting to really show how gorgeous this thing will be. Your workmanship is top notch.

Thanks very much for sharing in so much detail! I'm psyched to see the finished product.

[BrendaEM]

Thnaks : )

I would I could get more action shots, but I often work by myself.

I am going to try to get the jack template made this weekend. I need to save some money for the bridge. I am sorry for the lack of updates.

[rockola]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
Wood has one advantage over shell inlays--it's thick.Not only that, but it's also a lot cheaper... And, as all ADG owners know, it can also look quite nice.

[BrendaEM]

My friend showed me a way of cutting venier using a planer, and a board to support the stock, so we ran some pieces through until they were about .050" 1-2mm.

I cut them to size using the Dremel tool and a metal cut-off wheel.

[I strongly dislike the electronic speed control on the new Dremel tools; if the motor bogs down, it will try speed up on its own, making the tool surge. It's like they tried to hide the lack of torque by using electronics, but what they did instead is make a tool that is very difficult to control at times. I would rather the tool just slow down under load rather than have it speed out of control at an inapproprite time. I am supprised people aren't lining up to sue Dremel over this. It's a great tool otherwise.]

[BrendaEM]

I drilled the tuner holes through the other side, and widened them with the Dremel. I still need to touch them up a bit.

(I did the veneering a few weeks ago, between things.)

[rjgoos]

I know it's been said before, but this has been such a gift to all of us here...the pictures and "play-by-play coverage" of watching this instrument emerge from wood.

Thanks again, Brenda.


Jay

[BigDaddyPoo]

I also hear that the newer Dremels have noticeable travel vertically up the shaft that causes chatter and less than perfect routs. You ought to get a Foredom for future projects. I know they're alot more expensive, but a friend has one and he's never had problems with accuracy or power from what he says...

Looks really good. Keep up the good work and updates.

[BrendaEM]

Thanks for the encouragment. I am a little down right now because I have been so busy, and I don't have the money right now do do anything about the bridge.

At some point, I may just get an air-powered handpiece. They are affordable from places such as Harbor Freight.

[BrendaEM]

Sorry about the lack of updates. I've had some unpleasentness, and not been feeling quite myself. Anyway....

I made another template from my Inkscape drawing. I was able to expand the berzier curves to compensate for the router guide offset for one curve, but the other needed a little touching up.

I printed out the curves on some card stock, cut them out with a X-actto knife, and traced them onto some MDF. I used the same jigsaw, and Dremel tool drum sander to shape the cutout. I filed and sanded the edges smooth.

I made one for the outer and inner rout on the same piece of MDF. I remembered to flip the template over becasue it was drawn from the front of the guitar, but almost forgot to flip the guitar from top to bottom. I was trying to figure out why it measured larger on one side than the other. It was becasue I almost routed the wrong side of the lower bout.

[BrendaEM]

I clamped the template over the guitar, and routed the inner curve 1/4" 4mm at a time. I vacuumed out the dust.

I noticed the depth of cut decrease at one point. Apparently the springs on the router and the vibration was enough to let the router unplunge. I kept the handle tight afterwards. While this was distressing, it is much as bad as dropping a bit out of the router. I have seen that happen once. Dropping the bit from a router would let it bore through the entire instrument.

Half way through I made sure the bit was still tight : )

[BrendaEM]

Here are the finished routs. The extra wood is for threaded inserts.

[rjgoos]

Wow! Do you have an ETC (estimated time of completion)? It looks like things are headed towards the finish line.


My work is so crude, compared to Brenda's.


Jay

[rockola]

Originally posted by rjgoos
My work is so crude, compared to Brenda's.

Jay Let us be the judge of that Jay!

[BrendaEM]

Rjgoos, I hope to string it up by the end of next month. It has taken me a long time. I had money issues and scrounging for parts issues. I spent months just coming up with a drawing. I think I started cutting wood last fall! Eeek.

The todo list is:
Locate switch for pickups
Mount and Wire Electronics
Locate and mount bridge??
Make Cover Plate
Finish Nut
Sand Body
Glue and Level fretboard
Install frets
Finish Guitar
Install Tuners
Setup Nut and Intonation

I spent a lot of time to choose ways of making things that require more planning than skill. Still, I made a lot of mistakes along the way, fortunatly most of them have been small, a dent there, a little tearout here. It's hard to make one of something and expect it to come out perfect.

Sound matters most. Besides, you can't just claim that your work is crude without proof and proper deliberation. : )

[BrendaEM]

I drilled and stalled some threaded brass inserts. Oddly, I found these locally. They are SAE 6-32 thread.

I put a drop of glue on each one and backed it out here and there while I screwed them in.

I got a little close to the edge on one becasue the alignment of the two templates, so I mixed up some glue and sawdust to strengthen the edge. It will all be covered with copper foil anyway.

You can see, Rjgoos, that the far left and right holes are inequal : )

I drilled the pickup wire holes, and radiused the holes. I also used a ball bit in a moto-tool to undercut a wire path in the wood so I will have a little extra room in the compartment.

[Gustin]

I just wanted to say that your project is awesome. It's even inspired me to build one of my own. :)

Thanks!

[BigDaddyPoo]

How did you drill the route for the wire? I don't have a drill small enough to fit in an electronics compartment.

I do however have some "Amazing Live Sea-Monkeys TM"...

...maybe they could help me.

[BrendaEM]

Originally posted by Gustin
I just wanted to say that your project is awesome. It's even inspired me to build one of my own. :)

Thanks!

You are welcome, but If you are going to make one please heed the warnings at the beginning of this thread.

[BrendaEM]

Originally posted by BigDaddyPoo
How did you drill the route for the wire? I don't have a drill small enough to fit in an electronics compartment.
...

The holes were drilled from the bottom of the pickup cavity. The distance between the two is less than an inch for either hole. A local hardware or computer networking store usually have long drill bits.

[BrendaEM]

I made yet another MDF template, this one only has a square hole in it. I needed to route the floor of the compartment a little deeper, but I didn't want the whole bottom to be thin. The deepest rout is all but 3/16" ~3.5mm.

This is a seriously deep route, as deep as you would want to take a 1/4 bit. I routed a little at a time, and needed to remove the template. This accounts for the misalignment you see. I could have moved the template just one more time to clean up the last little bit, but I am not falling for that. : )

I made two marks and drilled them with the smallest bit I could find.

[BrendaEM]

I layed out some lines using the holes I drilled from the back. I drilled the holes wider for screws.

I drilled some holes for the end of the slot I cut. It helps lessen the chance of cracking the whole thing.

[BrendaEM]

I used a moto-tool and various bits to try to make a starter slot.

All my files were had safety edges, but the diamond ones. I used that to make most of the slot.

I finished the slot with folded sandpaper.

[BrendaEM]

This is what I was working on, an Alps stereo K-Fader. To make it fit, I needed to trim the tab from the fader cover. I will need to fold the lugs over to make the cover fit, and trim the cover so that it doesn't short.

This is why I wanted a wire channel, to keep it tight against the compartment screw bosses.

Notice the cat encroaching from the lower left.

[BrendaEM]

I don't want to go any deeper with the fader. The fader slot still needs a little fitting. I need to find some countersunk screws for it.

I need to make a knob, perhaps I have some scrap pau ferro somewhere.

[BrendaEM]

Today I pre-cut the frets. I drilled some holes in a scrap block of particleboard.

As a nice happy accident, the stainless fretwire has about the same radius as the instrument I am building, with just a little overbend.

I hung the wire over a drawer so that it could spool out as I went.

I marked the wire off with a Sharpie marker. I tried to make them a little long, but not too long because that would make more work later. They still need to be longer than the top surface of the board because the board is more narrow at the top than the sides.

I held the wire in a tiny $2 vice. I tried not to crimp the barbs on wire. If you don't have a crappy little $2 vice, a nice drillpress vice would also work : )

I used the moto-tool with a abrasive cut-off-wheel to cut stainless-steel fretwire. Low speed, and patients seems to be the way to go. There is no reenforcing mesh in the wheels, so they break easily. I got about 5 frets cut per wheel before they wore too small in diameter to be useful. The stainless is little harder than mild steel.

Out of 27 cuts, I marred a fret or two while starting the cut, and I decided that it would be easier just to toss it than try to gind and polish all the others down to match. If the scratch is near the ends that's fine because the ends will be beveled anyway.

After each cut, I advanced a piece of masking tape, covering that fretslot on the fretboard, so that I didn't cut the same fret twice.

[BrendaEM]

I decided to use the Gohto dual battery box. I think these boxes are a neat idea, but how they are made could be a little better. I don't feel the box will last, but they are common, so I will get a spare.

The box has 1/8" ~3mm radius in the corners, which like the Bartolini pickup radius are both smaller than a 1/4" router bit. Adjustments need to be made to the rout size.

I made another template for the box. When I tested it on scrap, I found that needed to enlarge the rout for the box.

I made sure the box and pickup would not interfer with each other before I routed the opening. This rout is quite deep, and took several steps at 1/4" passes.

[BrendaEM]

I drilled a connecting hole through to the pickup rout. Using the moto-tool, I made channels for the wires. I taped the wires on the side of the box so that they wouldn't get in the way. I also ground some areas on the box to make it clear the battery, and wires.

[BrendaEM]

Using the moto-tool, I made a little channel for the battery power wires to pass under the pickup.

Oddly, the box comes with four wires. Even if you are using 18 volt, two 9 volt batteries in series, you don't need the other two wires because you can connect them near the box.

[BrendaEM]

I drilled pilot holes for the box. The box seems to work okay, but I doubt that the wires will last long without breaking off. I also might releve the rout area so that the wires touch less. I will get a spare box.

I tried to place the box away from the centerline of the guitar where I want the string energy to be transfered to the body wood, and also away from the bridge and lower bout that I want to resonate.

When the instrument is tilted to play, the battery(ies) will be at the lowest point.

I am only using one battery for now, but I may change the instrument to 18 volts later.

[rockola]

Originally posted by BrendaEM
Oddly, the box comes with four wires.Perhaps the idea is to make it possible to use the box to power two separate circuits.

[BrendaEM]

I silicone glued in the trussrod today. Silicone sealer and sprays can be a disease of the shop. If anything becomes coated with silicone, it's probably not being glued or painted with anything--ever again.

[In cars they use "fisheye reducer" which is just silicone oil that's added to the auto paint; if you can't beat it join it. Once you paint something with "fisheye reducer, you always are.]

I masked anything I might touch as well as the surrounding wood area. I glues in a wooden block at the end of the rod, so that it the rod doesn't further slide into the guitar.

I siliconed in the trussrod on the ends, and a few places. I clamped it to make sure it stays down. The tubing they put over the rods takes the fear out of getting the rods all icky.

Both fretboard and neck top are sanded with 36 grit paper. I don't want to change the change the shape of either suface, but I want soemthing for the glue to bite into, so I sand sparsly, often against the grain. I avoid sanding the very edge of either becasue the coarse sandpaper will leave visible gouges in the edge of the fretboard.

Sorry about the blurry pic.

[Gustin]

What are the dimensions of your instrument?

[BrendaEM]

It's a 34" scaled instrument. The string spacing is 10mm at the nut, and 12mm at the bridge.

I will post drawing when I am through, which should be within a month. Right now there is a error in the treble tuner pin (One of four) location. I have also made a few changes, which I need to update.

[BrendaEM]

After the trussrod dried, I removed all the tape, and remasked the guitar too keep glue drips off of it. I put wax paper down to keep the bench from getting all glued.

[BrendaEM]

As in the instructions that came with the trussrod, I put a piece of masking tape down the center of neck covering the trussrod, because I also glue both sides, I also ran a strip down the center of the fretboard too...

[BrendaEM]

....and then I spread the glue on. I usually use my fingers for this, and try to rub it into the wood.

I pulled the tape off, leaving and area on both halves without glue. I did work a little glue right to the edges, but idea seems to be that the squeeze-out will spread all the way to the rod. I tried to keep the film of glue moderate.

Because I planned and checked everything, and I had all the clamps layed out, I actually had time to take this picture. Usually I am frantic at this point, covered in glue, using choice exclamatory remarks.

The little wooden pins made the fretboard alignment a no-brainer. You just pop the boards over the pins, and it's there. No sqirming or sliding. I didn't even have to look and see if it was on there right. This trick is seen elsewere on the internet, but it's usually done with cut staples instead of toothpick stock.

[It's strange, that I've had the fretboard on and off so many times, I am going to miss it. I've been working on this thing too long.]

[BrendaEM]

I placed thin strips of scrap wood on top of the fretboard. Douglas fir from building lumber is great for this because it's nice and soft. Notice the clamps have rubber cushions. I would not try this with clamps without them because they would slide off the rounded edges of the underside of the neck.

This many clamps are both nesessary and heavy. The handles are hard to turn when packed together like this. I had to rotate the guitar to get the back ones. I found that when tapped, I could find a loose clamp by the sound it made. It would be easy to flip the instrument right off the edge of the bench because it's very top heavy.

I placed some high density foam under the body of the guitar, and tried to prop up the neck evenly so that it will stay nice and flat.

[BrendaEM]

I thought this looked cool.

[BrendaEM]

This glue gets very very hard, harder than some plastics. When the glue had set for an hour or two, and no longer would squeeze out, I carefully removed the tape from around the fretboard. The glue is about like putty at the time the picture was taken.

I inserted an X-acto blade backwards into the holder, and carefully scraped the excess glue off. This will save a lot of work later. I don't recommend wiping the seam with a wet cloth. It seemed to clean up pretty easy this way. The maple and pau ferro seem hard enough to be scraped when wet with glue.

When soft woods like spruce and cedar get wet the tape can pull the grain out. Pulling the tape away toward the end rather than away from end might help minimize this.

In this pic the foam is turned to support the neck.

[rjgoos]

Brenda wrote:

>I thought this looked cool.<


My first thought, up on looking at this scene...looks like a Medieval implement of torture...or perhaps something a chiropractor would use...wow....19 clamps??


Jay

[BrendaEM]

I really wanted the fretboard glued on tight. If I had a few more I would have used them. I think that 22 is the magic number. Luckily, I had a friend who was nice enough to let me borrow them.

I also put a thin coat of silicone on top of the truss rod.

[The truss rod is a heavy susspended mass; it's a dampner. If it's not immobilized, it turns then energy from the strings and body into heat. For the instument to have good sustain, it has to move with the guitar.

Coil and magnet, pick ups are the same way. If they don't move with the guitar, your instrument sustain will suffer. I think that the sounds that plastic metal and wire make aren't all that musical. If something shakes in the guitar, I want it to be the strings or the wood.]

[BrendaEM]

I unclamped the guitar today. It's strange seeing it all in one peice. When I knock on it, it does resonate, sounding like one piece. It seemed to work out okay.

I ordered some ABM single string guitar bridges. It seems like they will need a little modification to accept bass strings, but I am hoping that they work.

I also ordered some Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil for finishing.

[BrendaEM]

I sanded the fretboard using the level and sandpaper. I worked it to #400 paper.

I used deadblow hard rubber mallet to pound the frets in. It worked well, and safer than a block.

[BrendaEM]

I ground the stainless steel frets using a moto-tool and an abrasive wheel. If the frets were long, I moved onto the next to let the one before it cool, and then came back.

I used very light pressure, so it the tool slipped off the end of the fret, it wouldn't dig too bad into the wood. I used two layers of masking tape to protect the wood.

I took them down almost flush with the wood.

[BrendaEM]

After I sanded the top of the frets, and beveled the ends. I masked each one off, and dressed the ends with a tungsten file. It's not clear from the picture, but I wanted to put a rounded bevel on each. The ones over the body were more difficult to do. You need a safety file to dress the frets. A safety file is just a file without teeth on the edge.

The stainless steel frets are softer than a file, but they will probably wear a file faster than nickel-silver would. The main difference between doing stainless and nickel frets, is the stainless ones should be cut with an abrasive wheel. I don't think a pair of nippers would last long, or do a good job. The difficulty in doing stainless frets has greatly been exagerated.

[I have only done 5 grind-and-polishes, and one refret, and this seemed to go okay. The hardest part was making sure they were seated.]

[BrendaEM]

I re-sanded the edges of the fretboard, and lightly sanded the ends of the frets.

I sanded the body to #600. I need to do more sanding when I have mre time, and the bridge installed.

I glued in the nut blank with wood glue. I think it's the best thing to use, because it beds the nut, but the bond is weak enough so the nut can be driven out.

27 frets...

[BigDaddyPoo]

Wow that looks great, Brenda!

I'm just reading over this thread, I'm going to my freinds house a couple of hours away this weekend to use his planer and joiner to start machining, and hopefully glue up my neck. I'm doing maple with mahogany stripes...I can't wait to get started.

What kind of finish are you going to put on it?

[BrendaEM]

Thanks for the kind words.

I am going to use Tru-Oil. It's a modified linseed oil varnish. It isn't as hard as lacquer, but it shows good grain depth, and it's easy to repair. I recommend it only for satin finishes. I live in the San Jose area, and I could never match clear lacquer because it's so bright here. I have Ikea furnature from last year that's already golden colored from the sun here.

That's a lot of work for one night. Use lots of clamps, and please be careful : )

[Want me to clamp him, boss?
http://www.gotfuturama.com/Information/CharacterBios/clamps.dhtml ]

[billbowen]

wow, this is coming along nicely. i can't wait to see the final instrument. good job, brenda.

[BrendaEM]

Billoween, thanks. I can't wait to finish it too.

[BrendaEM]

I saw this one-transistor buffer amplifier,

http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/

I had to try to make one, really two, one for each channel. It was inexpensive to make, so if it doesn't meet my needs, I can replace it.

I used a small piece of a Radio-Shack prefboard to lay out the parts.

[BrendaEM]

Here is the back. the power wires, ins and outs aren't hooked up yet.

[BrendaEM]

To mount it, I use two little blocks of body wood. I drilled each and screwed the same kind of brass inserts in that I used for the cover.

I glued them down with the board attached. I plan to change the screws to nylon ones.

[BrendaEM]

I used a rag to protect the head, and keep dust from the truss rod.

The nut is 10mm spacing with 5mm at each edge, but I already had it drawn out to scale, so I just cut out a printout and stuck it on the nut with double-stick tape.

I tried to center it, favoring keeping the bass strings farther from the edge.

[BrendaEM]

Using an X-acto saw. I sawed though all the lines of the paper template into the Delrin plastic nut.

I worked from small to large, in case I made a mistake. The saw was a good size foe the thin string, then I chased the next with folded snadpaper. The thicker ones I started with a hacksaw, and filed to shape. I also used a one-sized smaller bass string wrapped sandpaper to do the larger ones.

[BrendaEM]

I tried to make the strings go parallel with the the fretboard to get a rough guess on the depth.

Without the bridge, it's hard to judge how high the strings will be, so I undercorrected them.

[BrendaEM]

I used fine sandpaper to buff the saw and file marks out. I went to #600 in this picture, and then to #1500 paper.

[BrendaEM]

The pickup screws, as seen in the picture, were too long, so I trimmed them with pliers, and ground them pointy again.

If I had put these in, they might have went thogh the backside of the guitar.

[BrendaEM]

To locate the pickup holes, I used a tool called a transfer punch, which are just different diameter punches with a point in the center. They are good for locating fastners, and reverse engineering stuff.

In this case, I shapened nail of the right diameter would have done too.

I figured out the depth I needed, put a little tape flag on the drill bit, and drilled the pickup screws. I tested them.