Tuning vocabulary

[Dernier_recours]

Mirror means a symetric tuning. Uncrossed means left hand playing the left side and right hand playing the right side. Crossed means left hand on the right side and right hand on the left side.

Fine.

Now the gap. Fifth. Fourth. I can understand EADGBE, but can't figure what fifth ou fourth means.

I visited Daniel Shell's web site, but I'm still confused. Could someone explain it to me?

Thanx,

DR

[traktor]

The "gap" as you say, or "interval", is simply counting from one note to the next.

Let us for example start with the note C. If you go up to D, then we say that D is the second note, and the interval between the two notes is a "second".

From the note C to the note E is a "third". From C to the note F is a "fourth". From C to G is a fifth. And so on, going up.

But from C going *down* to the note "F" will be an interval (or gap) of a fifth. Count the notes going down: C is 1, B is 2, A is 3, G is 4, F is a fifth.

Now there can be qualifyers on these intervals. For example, from C up to E would be a "Major Third", but going up from C to Eb would be called a "Minor Third."

It would be sensible to also have C up to G to be a "Major Fifth" and from C up to Gb to be a "Minor Fifth", but for some wierd historical reason, they use a different term, calling C up to G a "Perfect Fifth" and C up to Gb a "Flatted Fifth."

So when they're talking about Fourths and Fifths intervals they use the "Perfect" and "Flatted" term. And when they're talking about Seconds, Thirds, Sixths, and Sevenths they use the "Major" and "Minor" terms.

This is all easier to see (and hear) on an instrument, or especially a piano.

If you ever saw the movie "The Wizard of Oz" and if you remember the monkey-soldiers in the Witch's castle, they sang a song that went "Yo Eeee Oh. Yo Ho." and the interval that they sing is a Perfect Fifth. Hear this once and you will remember it forever.

From C up to G is that interval, and sounds like the soldiers song. From F up to C is that same interval, and sounds like the soldiers song.

When we tune the first four strings on a normal guitar, we tune the lowest string to E, then the next string higher we tune to A, which is a (perfect) fourth up. The next string up will be D, and from A that is a (perfect) fourth up. Next string is tuned to G, and from D that is a (perfect) fourth up.

The guitar gets funny after four strings, but the first four strings on a normal guitar are tuned in ascending fourths, as I've explained.

Does this help?

[rjgoos]

A violin, mandolin, etc., have strings separated by fifths.

A bass guitar, and most of the strings on a regular guitar, have strings separated by fourths. Of course, on a guitar, there is that odd "B" string that doesn't follow that rule.

The advantage of a 4ths/4ths instrument, is that your right and left hands follow the same rules, making learning faster (as Traktor always points out), and sight reading easier (as Daniel always points out).

The advantage of a 5ths/4ths instrument is that your hands don't follow the same rules, your left hand will be hitting different note intervals and chords than your right hand. For example, to play melodies with one hand, and widely-spaced bass chords with the other hand, makes for the unique sound of a 5ths/4ths instrument.

The good news is...it's ALL good. Pick a tuning, and run with it.


Jay

[rjgoos]

Oh yeah, Traktor.... thanks a LOT for the "Oh Eee Oh"...that stupid ditty will probably be stuck in my brain all day...

[traktor]

Originally posted by rjgoos
Oh yeah, Traktor.... thanks a LOT for the "Oh Eee Oh"...that stupid ditty will probably be stuck in my brain all day... Excuse me, rj. That was *YO Eee oh. YO ho." Be glad you're not a monkey-solder; you'd have to sing it all day long, while marching around the castle. The life of a monkey-soldier is not a happy one.

And I was trying to think of songs that start with other intervals. I think Barbara Streissand's "People" starts with a major sixth. And I think "Happy Birthday" starts with a major second. What's a common song that starts with a fourth? Anybody?

[Dernier_recours]

This clarifies everything. I understand that if a monkey-soldier sings a C, and another sings a G, we obtain a perfect fifht, but if the first monkey-soldier is out of tune and sings a F, the second monkey soldier have the choice to be in tune with the song and sing a sixth, or to be in tune with the first monkey-soldier and sing a major fifth.

Thanks!

[traktor]

Originally posted by Dernier_recours
This clarifies everything. I understand that if a monkey-soldier sings a C, and another sings a G, we obtain a perfect fifht, but if the first monkey-soldier is out of tune and sings a F, the second monkey soldier have the choice to be in tune with the song and sing a sixth, or to be in tune with the first monkey-soldier and sing a major fifth.

Thanks! You may be teasing me, but I cannot tell for sure.

If a monkey-soldier sings a C, and another sings the G *above* the C, then the two of them have sung an interval of a fifth.

If a monkey-soldier sings a C, and another sings the G *below* the C, then the two of them have sung an interval of a fourth.

Up: Do ray me fa sol. 1-2-3-4-5. Five notes. Fifth.

Down: Do ti la sol. 1(8)-7-6-5. Four notes. Fourth.

I don't know about that other pair of monkey-soldiers.

[rockola]

Originally posted by traktor
What's a common song that starts with a fourth? Anybody?

The theme from "Dallas"!

Mark Levine's "Jazz Theory Book" has, in the chapter on intervals, an example of a jazz tune starting (in some cases it's from the middle) with all the intervals you could think of, both ascending and descending. It's a good book, people.

[rjgoos]

Is the "A-may" of "Amazing Grace" a fourth?

Jay
Yo-ee-oh

[Jersey Ray]

fourths:

the opening horn call in the first movement of Bruckner's 4th Symphony.

similarly, the opening of the Mahler 1st has abundant falling fourths.

or, maybe a little closer to top 40, the first strains of Mozart's 'Eine Kleine Nachtmusik'.

R

[jean_alexis]

Someday my prince will come (ascending 4th)

ja

[James]

Originally posted by Jersey Ray
fourths:

the opening horn call in the first movement of Bruckner's 4th Symphony.

similarly, the opening of the Mahler 1st has abundant falling fourths.

or, maybe a little closer to top 40, the first strains of Mozart's 'Eine Kleine Nachtmusik'.

R

They're in my Top 40 - if not Top 20 :)

[thomact]

Just to be comprehensive with this one, I use the following list to remember what the intervals all sound like:

Semitone - Jaws theme

Tone - start a major scale

Minor 3rd - Smoke on the water

Major 3rd - start a major arpeggio

Perfect 4th - Amazing grace

Tritone (flat 5, aug 4, diabolus in musica) - The Simpsons theme (from 1st to 3rd note of the tune)

Perfect 5th - Star Wars theme

Minor 6th - 2nd verse of My Way (my friend, I'll say it clear)

Major 6th - 1st verse of My way (and now the end is near)

Minor 7th - Larks Tongues in Aspic part II (bass line is F to the G below)

Major 7th - ummm, I don't really have one. I just move up a semitone and check that I've hit an octave.

Likewise, I don't have a method for the octave - but if you can't recognise an octave you should probably put your instrument down before you hurt yourself.

Thom...