How to Slot a Fanned Fretboard

[mrINFINITY]

I just happened to get a guitar student who builds guitars (along with doing alot of other really decorative woodwork) and he showed me a great way to cut out the fretlines on a fanned fretboard. I saw this site on the internet a while back that was saying to make 2 guides with a the whole fretboard slotted out on each side, and thought that there must be an easier way. He surely showed it to me.

All you have to do is draw the fretlines, and then use 2 really strong clamps to hold a straight-edge down across each fretline and saw. Easy as that

I finally started slotting my fingerboard yesterday using this technique, so I should hopefully have it fretted by next week so I can put some pictures up.

[Godsmonkey]

I am in the design stage for a custom touch style instrument, and your post about faned frets has me interested in trying them out. How does one go about measuring for the fret spacing? Are there any resources you could point me to?

Thanks in advance.

[mrINFINITY]

godsmonkey,

You basically figure out what scale length you want for the lowest and highest string. I used 63cm and 73cm on mine. Then you trace a line where the lowest and highest string will run down the fretboard. Then you mark each string with it's own scale length. Then after that's done you connect the dots on each side.

You want to set it up so that your nut and bridge are both tilted back, that way you don't get a really extreme fan on one side or another. For the nut I use bought a classical guitar saddle blank made from bone that i'm going to cut down to size, and for the bridge I am using individuals saddles (like those found on a stratocaster) each mounted on their own individual bridge.

If you got any more questions or you don't understand something let me know here!

-Alan

[traktor]

hi, godsmonkey,

You also might want to keep in mind that fanned frets are patented. Sometimes you'll hear people say, "Oh I'm just making one for my own use, not for commercial benefit." It's a common idea that this use doesn't fall under the patent law. However, it totally does.

Most of what we know about fanned frets are due to the work done by Ralph Novak, who is the patent holder of multiscale "fanned" frets.

When he patented fanned frets, he said that he was patenting it primarily so that nobody down the road could interfere with his using fanned frets. I know Ralph personally and have always found him impeccibly ethical, so I believe him when he says so.

If you want to be really clean on the issue, and to avoid the theft of intellectual property, you need only contact Ralph at http://novaxguitars.com and make an arrangement to licence the patent for your instrument. I think the fee would be minor.

[rjgoos]

According to the web site, the license is $75 per instrument, and includes instructions and support. The instructions and support alone could be worth $75. It does not appear that Mr. Novak is trying to gouge anyone, or prevent anyone from using his patent.


Jay

[mrINFINITY]

traktor,

I just basically play in private, so I don't believe there is any legal problem if I'm building one for personal use. But after I'm done I might show it to Ralph and pay the liscensing fee anyway. I have met with him in person on two occasions and I agree that he is a very nice and intelligent man. I know he's not out to get anyone.

Once my 8 string is done i'm thinking about making a 19, 24, or 53 tone guitar fretboard. So many choices!

19 = playable and different
24 = playable with other people and different, but no single circle of 5ths
53 = more in tune than 12, but very hard to play

So traktor, how about you get the mobius megatar guys to start making a microtonal instrument. All you do is take whatever root of 2 you want for that many notes in an octave and use that number instead of 1.0595 when you figure out fret spacing :).

weird people = play megatars
weird people = play microtonal

weird people = play microtonal megatars

[rjgoos]

I don't know about microtonal, but an interesting site about atonal tunings is at:

www.ralphpatt.com

Ralph tunes in straight 3rds. He said he developed this tuning, "...for a better way to facilitate improvisation using the atonal composition systems of Arnold Schoenberg. "


A 12-string instrument, with two sets of strings in 3rds, now THAT would be weird.


Jay

[traktor]

Originally posted by mrINFINITY
traktor, I just basically play in private, so I don't believe there is any legal problem if I'm building one for personal use. But after I'm done I might show it to Ralph and pay the liscensing fee anyway. I have met with him in person on two occasions and I agree that he is a very nice and intelligent man. I know he's not out to get anyone.
Hi, mrINFINITY,

I've heard this thought echoed a number of times. It seems intuitively correct. If you are not "benefitting" [read "money"] then how could you be harming the patent-owner?

Although this seems eminantly 'reasonable', in actual fact the patent law reads quite differently. Here's a quote from Nolo Press's excellent "Patent it Yourself" book by patent attorney David Pressman ...

"A patent gives its holder the right to exclude others from making, using, or selling the invention claimed in the patent deed ..."

Patent law seems, to me, somewhat unreasonable in several ways. Notice that there is no legal "penalty" for encroaching upon somebody else's patent. It's up to the patent holder to catch you, and then he has the right to sue you, and then he has to put on a court case, and win.

So all the patent really grants him, in a way, is the right to take the encroacher to court. Given the horrific burden of even *filing* a lawsuit, you can readily get that the patent-holder is not about to carry you off to court for building one instrument. It just doesn't make sense.

Another stupidity of the patent law, it seems to me, is that if the patent-owner fails to reasonably "protect" his patent (by warning and sueing people, etc) then in some cases the patent-holder can lose some of his/her ownership rights.

If Ralph sued you for making an unlicensed instrument for yourself, I'd be so surprised I'd eat a toad.

However, your idea of paying him a licensing fee anyway seems to me kind and full of integrity. It's like saying "thanks", in a concrete way, for the contribution that Ralph has made to the world of music and guitars.

[traktor]

Originally posted by mrINFINITY
So traktor, how about you get the mobius megatar guys to start making a microtonal instrument. All you do is take whatever root of 2 you want for that many notes in an octave and use that number instead of 1.0595 when you figure out fret spacing :).

weird people = play megatars
weird people = play microtonal

weird people = play microtonal megatars [Sssssh! I don't want just everybody to know this!]

[traktor]

Originally posted by rjgoos
I don't know about microtonal, but an interesting site about atonal tunings is at:

www.ralphpatt.com

Ralph tunes in straight 3rds. He said he developed this tuning, "...for a better way to facilitate improvisation using the atonal composition systems of Arnold Schoenberg. "

A 12-string instrument, with two sets of strings in 3rds, now THAT would be weird.

Jay I spoke with Ralph Patt about this. He said it makes playing very fluid. I've thought about it, from time to time. Here are just a couple of thoughts, and I'd be interested to hear what other folks think ...

1) If the instrument were tuned in thirds, then the "one-finger-per-fret" would become, for the first time, a reality. That is, on the lowest-pitched string, you'd play for example, root with one finger, flat-two with next finger, the the major second with next finger, and flat-three with last finger. Then the next note (the major third) would be on the next string, on the same fret as the root was. And so on up the scale. In any position, you'd never need to move or stretch at all, because all notes (including chromatics) fall exactly under your four fingers, all across the set of strings.

2) Nextly, if you took an instrument with two string-sets, and they both were tuned in ascending thirds, and you gave just a little thought to orienting the dot-markers to identify fretboard sections with identical note-positions at other fretboard-sections, then you could train both hands simultaneously.

3) This then means that transitioning your hand from a given position "A" to the next-higher position "B" would also be symetrical and exactly identical for both hands.

4) I think there would be no difference in the slotting and fretting of the instrument, though you would need to use a closer-grouped set of string gauges. [ie: they'd not get so thin so fast as you went up in pitch.]

And last, a speculation: I'm guessing that the selection of fourths by the Spaniards 700 years ago was mainly a matter of finding the balance between having plenty of "range" at a given hand position, and the "comfort" of being able to reach all the five chromatic notes on one string with four fingers.

Spaniards played a lot of open strings. The wierdness at the B-string -- being tuned up a third from the string below, when all other strings are tuned up a fourth from their string below -- is mainly a matter of creating an open-string set that easily plays E-modal and related keys.

Since we tappers have no further dependence upon open strings and since we can play easily up and down the fretboard, it may be that exploring thirds-tuning may make even more sense to us than it does to traditional guitarists.

Your thoughts?

[rjgoos]

Traktor,

A six string region tuned in thirds, covers about two octaves in one position.

It would be very easy to make a 2 x 6-string tapping instrument that would cover, for example, the normal range of the bass clef under one hand, and the normal range of the treble clef under the other.

I would think it would be a sight-reader's dream instrument.



Jay

[traktor]

Originally posted by rjgoos
A six string region tuned in thirds, covers about two octaves in one position.

It would be very easy to make a 2 x 6-string tapping instrument that would cover, for example, the normal range of the bass clef under one hand, and the normal range of the treble clef under the other.

I would think it would be a sight-reader's dream instrument. Hi, rj,

So, in that case, you'd probably scale the high melody strings about where they are, so that your thinnest string would still be an .009 and at the 12th fret area would play the D, E, & F at top of treble cleff, then you'd come *down* the strings, and near the bottom of treble clef the melody strings would run out.

For bass, strings, you'd probably come *up* from the low strings very near where current low bass strings are pitched. I haven't worked this out, but you could probably get an identical note pattern laid out at the fret two (bass) and fret twelve ( melody ) locations.

It would probably be pretty slick.

Has anybody here every tuned into thirds and tried this?

[Consul]

I can't say anything much about tuning to thirds (other than you have my complete attention and I like trying new things), but I do think for certain that this deserves its own topic. :D

I could always try tuning my guitar to straight thirds and seeing what I can do with it.

[mrINFINITY]

I tried tuning my strat Ab C E Ab C E once, but it was totally crappy. You'd have to have a great reason to do it on a 6 string guitar because for the most part it is very limiting.

but again, for you touchstyle guys it might work out very well if you had 2 regions of it.

Guitar Side: F A Db F A Db

[James]

I just experimented with tuning my 6-string to minor thirds, but could only get Eastern-sounding scales out of it. Interesting though

an identical or displaced tuning for tapping instruments would work well for acoustic, hollow-bodied instruments for playing classical guitar repertoire. The downside is that it is a completely unique tuning, unlike 4ths or 5ths that are found on other string instruments. Since 4ths and 5ths are perfect intervals it is probably easier to translate these than the third

Incidentally I tried crafty tuning on my guitar again and this time I felt quite apt with it. The top strings of a major 2nd and minor 3rd allow for easy triad voicings anywhere on the fretboard