I want to use effects in my playing. Suggestions?

[Blackbird]

Hi, all.

I'm new to the forum and am learning a lot, but I haven't seen any threads on playing a touchstyle instrument through effects.

I just got a Santucci Treblebass and I'd like the guitar part to be as guitarlike as possible. The only snag is I'm originally a bassist, so I got almost zero knowledge of effects. I have a Boss Octaver, a guitar chorus and a bass compressor I know I can put to good use, but I need a good distortion pedal and would like to know what you guys use, if you use anything at all. Thanks.

If possible, please mention the type of touchstyle instrument you play. Thanks.

[BCroad]

Blackbird,

Try Robert Keeley effects, his mods to the Boss DS-1, the Ultra which I have is amazing. I own the V-twin it's all tubes and is great but a little pricey. I use a tube amp too so the DS-1 Ultra pushes the amp but it works just as great with transistor. If you too are a freak for tone and nothing less will do, you should do yourself the favor and check it out, they also modify your pedal if you have one. If you don't believe me, check out the people who use them, enough said. www.RobertKeeley.com Hope this helps, actually anyone else as well.

Bryan

[t.drinn]

I can't really speak for a single pedal, but I've been getting great results with a Boss GT6 multieffects. Sure, you have to tweak patches to get just the right tones but editing is really simple and it's great to have so many sound options right under your foot. Not to mention that I can show up with just two bags; one for my ADG 8 and one that holds the GT6, a Boomerang and all of my cables. Plug into the board/house system/etc. and I'm good to go.

Some of the distortions I can live without but most sound great with proper tweaking. Playing a clean part through a modified JC-120 patch, looping that through the 'Rang and playing melodies through a modified Triple Rectifier patch over the loop is something I don't think I'll ever get tired of (well, at least not for a few weeks anyway).

Peace...

[traktor]

It almost seems like you're asking about what effect to accomplish, rather than whose brand of gear, so I'll pass along my suggestions for your consideration ...

Generally, as a bass player, you're probably already aware that the most commonly used effects for your bass strings will often be --

1) compression -- to smooth out one's finger pressures

2) EQ -- to balance your instrument to the music and the room, and sometimes to add some highs so that the human ear can *track* the pitch of the sound a bit better. For this same purpose the Audex Exciter or similar devices will also cause the ear to track pitch more easily, so that it sounds "clearer." On your santucci, the weakest part of your sound is the depth of the bass strings (27" scale), so beefing via EQ will tend to work.

3) Generally avoid -- reflections, echo, reverb, and (sometimes) chorus, as these can "muddy" the sound by making it less distinct.

[PS: A commercial for myself, as an aside ... I'm currently selling a used (but mint) GK bass head on eBay which does most all these things, as a bass amp generally should. Search on "200RCB" or visit the Megatar Store in eBay stores. I'm also selling a Beatles picture signed by all four, but I'm asking a bit more for that!]

On your guitar or melody side --

1) Overdrive of some kind -- this can be just a bit to make your sound more creamy, all the way to heavy-metal distortion. Usually this should come early in the chain.

2) EQ -- If you're playing jazz, for example, you'll generall roll off the highs quite a bit to get that soft sound. If country, you'll crank the highs to the moon.

3) Echo, reflections, slapback, ambience, reverb -- Most guitar sounds benefit in most musical styles by some bit of echoes or reverb.

4) Avoid -- Wah-wah, unless you're Jimmy and the time is 1979, IMHO!

Hope some of this is useful.

I personally use Johnson J-Stations, which emulate amps and add effects, and then send both into a Barbetta flat-response PA-style amplifier. But inexpensive stomp boxes can also work well. If using these, keeping the chain short makes life simpler and sound better.

Let us know what you work out!

[Jersey Ray]

Ah, Traktor, so many rules... the only rule is that there are no rules!! I would suggest buying one or two Roland/Boss multi fx units off of e-bay and go crazy! I recently dusted off my GP-100 and I am still amazed at how many great sounds and options this thing has, and I bought it in 1997. It holds up with the best stuff being made today.

So I am definately a Roland endorser, and I would suggest to the new player to avoid stomp boxes, since today it is so much more cost effective to get a good multi fx unit, and there are so many good ones to choose from. Stomp box collecting was cool when I was a college student in the 80's, or if you are a guitar slinger and you absolutely have to have that punk-rock street-cred look. In that case you will have to season your stomp boxes by chipping half the paint off with a file, and throwing them out a window onto pavement a few times. Then apply duct tape where needed, and glue your boxes to a piece of plywood with hot-melt. Then you'll have "the look".

Jersey Ray

[traktor]

Originally posted by Jersey Ray
Ah, Traktor, so many rules... the only rule is that there are no rules!
Hi, Jersey Ray,

Not actually rules, just what I've commonly seen. But your idea of getting a multi-efx box and leaping in is certainly a good idea.

Of course, carrying your instrument to the music store to try some of their multi-effects (if they gotto some set up) would also be a good start. Of course, if this isn't possible, probably most of the multi-effects out there would work pretty good, and that means used eBay might make purchase cheap. I was very happy with my previous generation (Korg Toneworks) floor-multis.

[glints-collide]

4) Avoid -- Wah-wah, unless you're Jimmy and the time is 1979, IMHO!

Sorry, can't agree with that. If you use for example a
delay pedal with wahwah, you can get some of the
nicest space sounds out there. Depends of course on
the style of music you want to make.

[BrendaEM]

This is a fun topic because it's largely personal taste, but you did give us an objective: to make your instrument sound like a guitar.

You might want to bring your instrument to a guitar shop and try some stuff. It's fun! I would try out at least one big Marshall, and one big Fender amp, to get a feel of what the boxes are trying to emulate.

As for a guitar, I would go for the bread and butter guitar effects first: distortion and reverb.

For distortion, I would start with something with a real tube, such as a tube preamp. I have heard a lot of simulated tube sounds, but I feel a real tube, even just a 12ax7 preamp tube in the signal chain warms thing up. The clipping tubes make is musical and difficult to emulate with solid state parts. Tubes wear, but one preamp tube a year isn't that expensive.

Rock and blues players often use an Ibanez Tube Screamer solid state transitor distortion to overdrive the the front-end of their tube amps. The box was supposed to sound like a tube, but it doesn't, yet it's a nice transitor distortion box. They are being reproduced now.

Usually, putting any kind of distortion in the signal chain will compress the sound too.

For that beehive ultra-compressed distortion sound you can use Metal style-distortion box.

There are finer parts of amplifiers that aren't being modeled yet. Often guitar amps were so badly designed that the sound actually swells, but this can be musical too.

A lot of the classic electric guitar sound, and yet more distortion comes from the flimsy speakers. Guitar speakers are an audiophile's nightmare, but they add a lot to the character of the guitar sound. If you don't want to own a large cabinet, you can get an electronic cabinet simulator. Often modern effect units have a cabinet simulator built right in.

A lot of guitar music came through springer reverbs. They have a thick gooey unnatrual sound, but are often associated with the guitar.

There are a lot of floor pedal boards, and rackmount effect boxes. I would take a good hard listen to them before you decide on one. Often, the reverbs they have aren't all that great, but they seem to do good with delays, chorus, and flangers. Often, the presets are set up like fun cliches, and emulate other players sounds. When you get down to playing, you may find that all those presets, while they grab your attention, don't hold it. So, then you make your own presets.

It's easy to get caught up in all this effect business. Every time you add or change an effect that changes the sound, it will probably effect your playing. Please, try to make time to play your instrument as well as all the knobs, boxes, and wires, in the signal chain.

[JimmyTheSaint]

On the guitar side, try an amp stimulator, such as a PodXT from Line6 or a GNX4 from Digitech (or its non-workstation version of the same box). They're both a bit mediocre, however, unless you upgrade them with Line6's Model Packs or the GNX Supermodels (at http://mtprosound.com/MFXSUPERMODELS.html )

[GaryOpenhill]

4) Avoid -- Wah-wah, unless you're Jimmy and the time is 1979, IMHO!

....or unless you're this guy: http://www.eliahlevy.com/media/movie01.html

...or this guy: http://www.eliahlevy.com/media/movie02.html

(happens to be the same guy, btw)

[K Rex]

I use the Tech 21 Sans Amp bass driver to great effect for distortion and for an overall preamp. It has the best distortion for bass and baritone instruments, bar none. And coupled with the bass octaver (I use that one, too), it is MONSTROUS. I think you can pick up a Sans Amp bass driver for 150 if you look in the right place.

K Rex

[K Rex]

Also, BEWARE the Digitech GNX4. Although the amp modeling is great, the distortions and effects are great, etc., the unit has a LAG when switching effects i.e. you won't hear the effect you want immediately, but only after a very slight delay. Every GNX4 unit has this lag, which is a real DRAG when you play demanding or complicated music and need to turn on a dime....

Nothing beats the Sans Amp. Period.

[JimmyTheSaint]

Originally posted by K Rex
Every GNX4 unit has this lag

I don't notice a lag on my GNX4. I use the GNX Supermodels, exclusively, but I don't know if they have anything to do with eliminating lag. Without them, the GNX4's patches are just mediocre: http://mtprosound.com/MFXSUPERMODELS.html/

I recommend trying a Sustaininac Model C. It's great in combination with a distortion effect, and is the only effect I know of that physically alters the feel of the instrument in your hands, like your guitar's alive. You have to have a really good muting technique or else the thing can get out of control:
http://www.sustainiac.com/