Thumb position

[3 dogs at night]

I am curious about hand position and more specifically, thumb position. When playing the Megatar, the lesson book specifies the thumb of the left hand should be on the back of the neck. However this is very uncomfortable to me and I have not been able to find a strap adjustment that lessons the discomfort. My easy and natural (to me) solution is to let my thumb come around to the front of the fingerboard. I realize this may not be the proper technique, but as a double bassist I am comfortable going into thumb position anyway. Granted I’ve only had my Megatar 2 days, and there is an adjustment period and probably a few aches and pains to go with it. I prefer to go with the more naturally comfortable solution, which is why 2 months before my Senior Recital in college I switched from French to German bowing. It felt much more natural and therefore I was able to make up the temporarily lost ground very quickly due to the new comfort levels while playing. I don’t feel like I must have my thumb on the back of the neck to gauge hand position as that will come with time and muscle memory. So, my question is; is there a serious downside to playing this way? I am interested in hearing from everyone, particularly Megatar players, although I imaging anything with 10 strings or more would create a similar issue for some players. Thanx.

Tom

PS I’m using the bass-bottom Megatar tuning, which is a crossed hands tuning.

[rockola]

If you're more comfortable without your thumb behind the neck, then by all means go for it. I would assume the book advises you to keep your thumb behind the neck because most people find it easier to play with the thumb(s) "supporting" the neck. However, there are several players who don't do it, notably Bob Culbertson, who uses his thumbs on the fretboard a lot.

[lemur821]

I imagine that the neck angle is a big part of it, and also whether your torso is there to support the instrument. When I play an instrument with a more horizontal neck my thumb naturally gravitates to the back of the neck. With a more upright position (like my bass now that I've moved the strap buttons), I don't use the thumb nearly as much. It often just floats near the back of the neck. I suppose that a wider fretboard would cause me to just put it in front of the neck.

[traktor]

If the megatar is upright (see photo in owner's manual), then your left wrist can be straight or near straight. If the left wrist is straight, then the thumb can fall behind the neck both for strength and leverage and also for keeping hand placement steady. (Of course, tightly gripping the neck can tire your hand but that's not necessary.)

With the left wrist straight you'll find that your reach extends from the inner web of your thumb all the way to finger tips, about two inches longer than in normal bent-wrist bass or guitar hand position (where your reach only extends from your palm near your first finger to fingertips). In this case you have great reach, and stability, and I believe it helps to avoid the potential bent-wrist health problems sometimes mentioned by bass players.

Of course, there is nothing really *wrong* with floating your left hand above the fretboard. Bob Culbertson does it. Generally it means you must press the megatar tuners back toward your chest, so that your chest provides support for your left-hand fingers pressing atop the fretboard. It means that your elbow usually comes up higher. If you attempt to fret notes with your thumb it can be done, though you're using your thumb pressure toward the *edge* of your thumb which is your thumb's weakest musculature arrangement. Bob Culbertson does use his thumb for fretting in this method -- it gives a vast long reach along the strings -- but he told me that he tires, and can usually only do one song in this manner before going back to a stronger hand position.

However, if you develop this, myself and a number of people here would very much like to hear about your experience. (But please do work out the straight left wrist, for comparison, just to make sure you're comparing apples to apples.)

(PS: If you are having trouble getting the straight left wrist or it's not comfortable, it sounds like something's less than optimal. You have my phone number. Feel free to call me and I'll be happy to go over this with you on the phone to see if I can be of assistance. Though in the end, these instruments and their best method of play is rapidly mutating in these times, and you might be the guy to come up with a better method.)

[3 dogs at night]

Thanks for all the replies. Strangely enough my wrists are OK, I'm not having much trouble getting them straight or nearly straight. I think a bit of the problem lies in my compact hands. For me to fret a note with my index finger on the lowest string puts my thumb in an awkward position and isn't terribly comfortable. I don't plan on using my thumb to fret notes, I definitely think the 3 finger method works best on this instrument. I don't even like using my thumb to finger notes in thumb position on my double bass, because of the thumb being so weak. At the moment I'm just letting my thumb float which seems to be working well. I may (and probably will) experiment a bit more with instrument and hand position for a bit before really settling into one way, but for the moment I keep going back to the floating thumb, so I guess I'll wait and see where it leads me.

[mrINFINITY]

Funny thing about stringed instruments like the guitar. I don't believe your thumb should be muscling any of the notes down. This is what I teach all my students about the thumb on your fretting hand. There are two things you can experiment with. One is just putting your finger where it belongs and pulling your elbow back, and actually using your arm to fret the note. Also, experiment with letting gravity hold down the note for you (this doesn't work as well for tapping instruments). If you just put your finger on the note and let the weight of your arm drop you'll notice that it'll fret the note for you. I was taught by my teacher that your thumb on the back of the neck should feel like a butterflys wing lightly brushing against your cheek. You should not be using it to 'Clamp' notes in proper playing anyway. At least thats my opinion.
There are a seperate set of rules I give to my students about actually moving the thumb around behind the neck as you play so it is always in a good position solely for balance. But since that's not part of the question I won't get into it :P

[Daniel Schell]

agreed with infinity

our thumb is definitely not a claw, but a guiding or playing device.


best

Daniel

[thomact]

When playing a song that is completely tapped, I agree, the thumb doesn't need to do much more than be dragged along by the fingers.

BUT, when I'm playing a song which switches between tapped and fingerstyle I find that I need more volume from tapping in order to match up with plucked notes. I use the additional strength provided by using the thumb more forcefully in order to do this.

I haven't been playing long though (bass for ages, touch guitar for 3 months), have other players got tips on this issue (switching from tap to fingers and vice-versa)?

Thom...

[rjgoos]

I think that many of us struggle with ergonomics. I still haven't found a way of holding my Stick that allows me to play for prolonged periods (say 1 hour) without some discomfort.

You might wish to buy (or make) a lap bar. I now play my Stick without a neck strap, and with a lap bar (similar to Bob Culbertson), with the instrument more forward (not resting against my shoulder, and this helps a lot. The Megatar, of course, is designed with a nut on the back for a lap bar.


R. Jay Goos