Budget Touch guitar?

[stevehollx]

Im contemplating buying a touch guitar. I'd like something cheap for now, while I decide if touch style is my thing (since Im mainly a flatpicker guitarist). I do touch style on my 6 string gutiar now, but would like something with possibly a lower register for some deeper rhythm sounds. I really would like to spend absolutley no more than $600, and ideally would like tos pend around $400. Is there any budget touch style instrument tht goes used around this price range? It seems everything goes new for over a grand...

[BCroad]

I am absolutely a nobody in the touch world and I use touchstyle strictly out of necessity (hope I spelled that correctly). But I found for myself, the seven string works well, I tune it a little differently and treat it as a guitar. So (as I said) for me, I've got the range, full and low to the highs of your typical guitar, and it nicely worked out for a very cheap price. This is good in that you can get your seperation happening, use what you already know (never really understood why you should relearn something unless it's that hard) and it fits the budget nicely. If I were to get something like a Phalanx or whatever, I'd still keep this instrument. I paid $150.00 for it, worked on it myself and in line with some real nice old Fender amps it sounds great. I don't let listen with my eyes (regarding the price), if this were $5,000.00 and sounded badly I wouldn't want it. Hope that helps out.

Bryan

[traktor]

It's very difficult to make a touch-guitar for under a grand, because (a) it takes as much hardware as a bass and a guitar, and a thousand bucks is about what a modest bass and guitar cost, and (b) the set-up and tolerances have to be *more* exact than modest guitars or basses, and (3) the market is narrow, meaning you can't get economies of scale like selling 30 million strat copies.

The price of existing instruments reflects these home truths.

However, if this is your budget, then it's your budget. Unless you are very lucky, you won't get a great instrument within this budget, but you can find a workable instrument within this budget, though you may have to search a bit.

Used Stick is your most probable solution. Some of these are older, don't have all modern improvements, and may get sold in that price range.

Ebay is one possible, and calling music stores, and watching newspapers. It can be a tedious and long process. (My first instrument was bought this way, took several weeks of earnest and diligent searching, and I thought myself lucky to find one in excellent shape (recent make and like new) for $1000.)

If you strike out after trying for a while, perhaps you'll have more money saved up by then! :)

And of course, some folks find themselves lucky every single day. Perhaps one of these days, while you're searching diligently, you'll discover that you're one of the luckies!

[stevehollx]

Originally posted by BCroad
I am absolutely a nobody in the touch world and I use touchstyle strictly out of necessity (hope I spelled that correctly). But I found for myself, the seven string works well, I tune it a little differently and treat it as a guitar. So (as I said) for me, I've got the range, full and low to the highs of your typical guitar, and it nicely worked out for a very cheap price. This is good in that you can get your seperation happening, use what you already know (never really understood why you should relearn something unless it's that hard) and it fits the budget nicely. If I were to get something like a Phalanx or whatever, I'd still keep this instrument. I paid $150.00 for it, worked on it myself and in line with some real nice old Fender amps it sounds great. I don't let listen with my eyes (regarding the price), if this were $5,000.00 and sounded badly I wouldn't want it. Hope that helps out.

Bryan

Yeah, I was actually contemplating this. I found carvin sells neck through 7 string necks for around $200. After being a former carvin owner, I know how well these necks are constructed. I am contemplating Glueing small 3-4 inch wings on each side down on the bottom of the neck, to create room to put a bridge on it, and then route a pickup route and trow some type of active pickup in it. All in all, shouldn't cost me more than $350 or $400, depending on what type of pickup I decide to go. (If I decide to do this, should I go with a bass pickup? The pole pieces probably won't line up, but I plan on string this with the thickest set of 7 strings I can find and tuning it to 4ths from possibly a low A, which is getting very close to bass territory...would a guitar pickup respond to this?)

Thanks for everyones help so far.

Steve

[BCroad]

I have a Fender Strat 7-string tuned low A,E,A,D,G,B,E. I've been tuning it a whole step down on top of that. One output and the original pickups which happen to be humbuckers. I find with dynamics and listening, you can have your three independent
parts or however many you are trying to do without all of the gagets. To the seasoned cats out there, I'm sure this sounds like a joke, but it absolutely works, and, as I said, it fits the budget. While I save up for a tap instrument down the road, hopefully, if and when I get an instrument like I want, this one will have developed my technique along the way so I can really use and enjoy the monster instrument I've been saving for. For money sake, go into a music store that has cheap seven string guitars and try what I've been doing (listed above), it might work, it might not. If it does, hey, you've saved a lot of money, and like me, this is a learning thing so you may find after a while what you want for a tap instrument down the road is not what you think you want now. Hope this helps too.......

Bryan

[rjgoos]

Steve,

Yeah, I had looked at my Carvin catalog a month or two ago, and wondered also how hard it would be to make a touch instrument out of the mostly-finished necks they have for sale.

I had also thought, if one could get, say a left-hand four string bass neck, and a right hand four-string bass neck, and mount them side-by-side, if one could make a long-scale two-neck eight-string tapping instrument, similar to Adam Fulara's dual neck tap guitar.

But winters are long up here in North Dakota, and there is lots of time to think about many ideas...bot good and bad ideas.

RJ

[stevehollx]

Originally posted by rjgoos
Steve,

Yeah, I had looked at my Carvin catalog a month or two ago, and wondered also how hard it would be to make a touch instrument out of the mostly-finished necks they have for sale.

I had also thought, if one could get, say a left-hand four string bass neck, and a right hand four-string bass neck, and mount them side-by-side, if one could make a long-scale two-neck eight-string tapping instrument, similar to Adam Fulara's dual neck tap guitar.

But winters are long up here in North Dakota, and there is lots of time to think about many ideas...bot good and bad ideas.

RJ

Yeah. The main advantage to having the neck thorugh neck is that I can mount the bridge and pickup directly on the neck, and not have to adjust for a neck angle. This will probably allow me to get very very low action since Ill have virtually a straight neck. The only dip to this is that I may want more than seven strings. I have contemplated getting the 6 string bass neckthrough and filling the tuner holes, and cutting a new nut and drilling new tuner holes for 5 strings per side. However if I decide to go with an unconventional stirng length, such as 10, where would a find a bridge for this? And would it fit the neck width I'm looking at?

[traktor]

If a standard instrument like a guitar or bass is decently made and you adjust it carefully, it can function pretty well.

Solution #1 -- Positioning:
==================

Most (not all) of us agree that upright positioning permits both hands to approach the fretboard with fingers parallel to frets, producing easiest and best results.

How to position standard instrument uprightly?

In many cases it can be done nicely. Here's how --

Buy two guitar straps. Re-position the strap buttons so that you've got a button on each "shoulder" and a buton on each "hip", a total of four buttons. (You mock this up using duct tape actually first, to get the best balance points before drilling strap-button holes into your instrument.)

You wear the two straps like suspenders. For example, one strap is attached to the left shoulder of the instrument (instrument seen from behind as you're wearing it), and that strap goes over your left shoulder, across your back and near your right hip it attaches to the right hip of your instrument. In mirror-fashion, the other strap fastens to the instrument's right shoulder, goes over your right shoulder, across your back, and near your left hip attaches to the instrument's left hip.

Presto! Upright positioning using two guitar straps.

You can see a (not very clear) picture showing a TrebleBass being supported in this way here:

1996 Belgian E-Tap Seminar (traktor on far right) (http://www.tapguitar.com/everybody1996.html)

Solution #2 -- Redo the set-up:
======================

Flat fretboard/truss-rod
------------------------------
On a table, lay your instrument flat on some computer books. (Linux books are said to be more stable than Windows books.) Using a straight-edge lay it on the frets. Looking across the fretboard, you should see no light in the middle of the straightedge (that would mean your fretboard bowed down in the middle). Holding the two ends of the straightedge you should not be able to "rock" it (that would mean that some fret(s) in the middle were bowed or sticking up).

You can also sight down the fretboard, along the edges, toward the light. Look to see if the fret ends appear to be in a straight line. Also compare to the straight string to see if the frets seem to be flat.

Using the truss-rod, adjust so that neck is about as flat as you can make it.

Low string height/saddles
---------------------------------
Next, adjust the saddle height to lower the strings, and attempt to get them so low that a penny or dime can fit between the string and the 12th fret, but no more. If the strings then buzz down at fret 1 or 2, you'll need to raise them till buzzing stops. If the saddle-height adjustments change a lot, recheck the truss rod adjustment. (When saddle height changes, angle changes, and the amount that the string-tension pulls on the head changes, so the amount of truss-rod counter-tension may need to be changed.)

Sensitivity and tone/pickups
------------------------------------
Once strings are low, then, with instrument on and plugged in, tapp on strings as you raise the pickups up to almost touch the strings. The pickup beneath thin strings should almost touch, and the pickup beneath the fatter strings should be further away.

Tap on your high string as you bring the pickup nearer and farther away. Amp and effects should be set to clean. As the pickup gets very close to string, the sound should distort. (The magnet is *pulling* on the metal string.) Back the pickup further away until the distorted sound just goes away. Then adjust the pickup beneath the fat strings will tapping on various strings, in an attempt to get as even a volume as possible across all the strings.

Now, tune up the instrument, put on your Suspendo-Straps(TM!), and rock out!

[lemur821]

Just a few things to add. A Strat style guitar doesn't go well with the neck on the left side of your head, because the large shoulder presses against your sternum and tilts the guitar to a less optimal position. You could chop it off if you wanted, I guess. Also, the distortion you will hear isn't distortion in the overdrive sense (although depending on how hot your pickups are, you may get that too), it's a warbling noise. Your bridge pickup can go very close without causing that problem, the others, a little less close.

[mrINFINITY]

If you can find a baritone scale 7 string guitar for cheap you'll be in tall cotton because it's a good length to put both guitar and bass range strings on.
You could also try some different tuning on a regular 7 string guitar, maybe similar to the chapman stick tuning? DGC-BEAD with reversed 5ths on the bass side, that way you could kinda get used to that system more.

[mrINFINITY]

and I forgot to add that Adam Fulara inspired me to arrange a couple bach 2 part inventions for a regular 6 string guitar and they came out surprisingly well so for some things a 6 string guitar tuned standard is great.