Any 6-string acoustic tappers here?

[FretDragon]

Subject says it all. Resources for learning seem to be few and far between.

[rjgoos]

Well, I tried tapping my Alvarez Yairi dreadnaught, and I thought it sounded pretty lame as a tap instrument.


RJ Goos

[FretDragon]

Geez, thanks for the encouragement! :confused:

I guess Hedges, Degrassi, King, and others must suck too.

I realize that I'm new to this board, but answers like that are not going to win many friends or newcomers here. I asked a serious question and got a smart-a$$ answer.

Sorry I asked.

[murphy]

Yeah, resources for learning acoustic tapping do seem to make stick-style tapping look mainstream. It's really a very different animal too. Seems like all the acoustic 6-string tappers of note tend to use a lot of open strings, open-tunings and pull-offs. As far as real instruction goes, I haven't seen much.

There's an amazing guy here in Dallas named Rhett Butler who put a little instructional video (plays on your PC, can't remember the format offhand- prob mpeg) as an additional feature on his "Physics of Acoustics" CD. It's fairly short, of course, and he just covers some basics and then teaches you one of his tunes. He's got a website:
http://www.rhettbutler.org

The only other thing I'm aware of is a site that has transcriptions of some of the guys you mentioned. DeGrassi, Hedges, and Billy McLaughlin among others. Here's that one:
http://www.stropes.com/

Good luck. (and don't be so touchy! ;) RJ seems OK to me)

murph

[FretDragon]

Sorry, musta been a bad hair day. (yeah, I wish I still had hair...)

I've checked the Stropes site, and order a number of transcriptions in the past. The problem is that the subject matter is quite advanced to begin with and so leaves a newb to tapping staring at the paper and the guitar saying "yeah, right!".

I'll check the other site you mention also.

RJ, I've seen your posts on other forums, and do beleive that you were sincere and honest in your reply. As I am sure Stickists can attest, it can be lonely and frustrating trying to learn something outside of the mainstream.

And acoustic guitar tapping really must be viewed as a seperate animal as most tapping instruments do. Although folks like Billy McLaughlin get some very smooth and flowing sounds tapping an acoustic, I see it with more of a percussive flare.

[Uberbass]

If you're serious about tapping on an acoustic, I think Preston Reed has some instructional stuff, or at least some transcriptions.

[FretDragon]

Yes, I have Preston's video. His tapping technique appears to me to be based on slide guitar (listen and you will understand), which does not really apply to the style I am trying to form.

Thanks though!

[HippieGeorge72]

My first question is Why do you want to tap on an acoustic? Is it the sound of an acoustic? If so, look into buying an electric guitar with a piezo system or a fishman bridge (even if you have to install it yourself)
If it is for the look of the instrument AND the sound, then maybe the answer lies in the pick-up system on the acoustic. Try doubling the Electric/Acoustic piezo with an electric pick-up.
The fact is that very few acoustic pickups are strong enough for acoustic tapping, however I have done it with very heavy hands. The strings on an acoustic are very hard for 2-handed playing, so I opted to put a piezo in my electric.
I hope that this helps in one way or another.

[FretDragon]

Good question George. Actually, the tapping style that I am trying to emulate/develop is purely acoustic and incorporates many percussive nuances that cannot be generated with an "electric" instrument. And to add to my above comments regarding Preston Reed's video instruction... Preston really is a superb player - only his lessons revolve mostly around his bongo-drum playing on the guitar body than on tapping. And this is a very different kind of percussion than I am after.

To put things in perspective, when I went through a bluegrass phase many years ago, I studied guitar with a banjo teacher. This taught me to not think as a guitarist, but as a musician. And also brought nuances and styles not inherently thought of as "guitar" to my guitar playing.

I am now trying to do the same with tapping. I have, and am, studying established tapping resources on acoustic guitar, such as Michael Hedges, Billy McLaughlin, and Preston Reed, but am trying to reach into the "Stick" community to borrow some thought process and approach to music from there in developing my own style.

What I have found thus far, though, is that the most limiting factor is the traditional position of holding a guitar prohibits right hand position conducive to a true 2-handed technique. Currently, I am able to play using a limited 2-3 right hand finger technique, but only in conjunction with a left-handed line - not a single right hand melody. Maybe this is the same for Stick-newb's. it's a fun journey of exploration and learning.

[HippieGeorge72]

Have you tried different tunings on the acoustic? Try the "Split Neck" theory also ... have 3 strings for you "Bass" or "Chord" parts and the other 3 for your "Melody". Try using a set of 12-stringss for more tuning posibilities, such as using the octave A, D and G strings for your melody side, or the E,A, and D and then double that on the "Bass" side. Electric strings on an acoustic could change the responce, but also the tension of the strings ... I think that the "Split Neck" theory will help, even though it is on 6 strings instead of the 10 or 12 from the Stick. Also, try to tune the "Bass" half into 5ths for easier chords movements and voicings.

[FretDragon]

Thanks for the ideas George.

[mrINFINITY]

Theres a nice acoustic two hand tapping video here:

http://www.doolinguitars.com/king.html

[FretDragon]

Yes, Justin's playing is cool. His double-neck double-dadgad setup is very interesting. I've emailed him a few months ago with a few questions, but no reply... :(

Again, thanks for the ideas!

[Ixilblix]

I guess it was about 3 years ago that a bandmate and myself drove down to Orion Sound Studios in Baltimore, MD to see The California Guitar Trio with guest Tony Levin. It was a great show to say the least. Orion is a series of rehearsal rooms and they hold concerts in one of the larger rooms.
An artist by the name of Richard Leo Johnson was one of the opening acts of the night. He played a double-neck acoustic guitar touchstyle and it was amazing. If you can give him a listen he is indeed a great player.
(I know its not exactly a significant post as to your question, but I figured I'd spread the word about yet another player in hopes of others hearing him.)

[SkinnyDevil]

I realize this is an older thread, but I thought I'd chime in on this one, as I do a lot of live gigs abusing my Martin (yes, I said Martin, not Ovation - hahaha!) and have had the chance to speak with some fantastic players.

You might be interested in some of the interviews I've done for my "Guitar Gods" series.....Michael Hedges (many years ago), plus recent interviews with Preston Reed, Justin King, and others. There are some electric players in there known for their tapping in the rock genres (Billy Sheehan, Jennifer Batten, etc.).

http://www.skinnydevil.com/GuitarGods.html

Attached to some of the interviews are lessons. Beware, the lessons were written for intermediate guitarists (generally rock players) new to tapping, so if you already have decent facility tapping, you probably won't be interested. That said, Ill be releasing a "New Acoustic Concepts" (again, a primer) lesson next month that includes a few words by Justin King.

[jeremybender]

speaking of justin king this is one awesome video

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/guitar.php

[FretDragon]

And check it out at the Larivee Guitars site for the full length video.

Jeff

[SkinnyDevil]

The albino video is fantastic and it is also something I ask Justin about in the lesson. Note his super-fast right hand strumming. I've had a lot of questions about that, so I asked Justin himself (since my hand just doesn't move that fast!). Yes, he is using 2 fingers and a thumb to get that machine-gun speed.

[lemur821]

Like a rasguedo? I can't actually see the video well, I'm on dialup.

[mrINFINITY]

Having played alot of flamenco music and taken lessons with Juan Serrano I thought i'd chime in on this one. < hope that last sentence doesn't make me look like an arrogant jerk, hehe. Anywho, that speedy triplet rasgueado strum looks like one I use often which is as follows:

1. upstroke with thumb
2. downstroke with middle finger
3. downstroke with thumb

You just repeat those 3 steps and you can do those fast triplets. It's alot easier than it looks! Definately easier than the other sections of the video i think.

[SkinnyDevil]

Roughly how far apart are you holding your thumb and finger? I've tried this technique, but can't quite get up to speed. As I approach it, the technique starts getting sloppy - not in that "just practice more" way, but in that "you're not quite doing that right" sort of way.

I also think I may be striking the strings to hard. Is it a "soft" technique, or are you using plenty of authority in the attack?

[lemur821]

Keep in mind, since you're flicking your fingers out, you're using different muscles than you use for a regular pluck or tap, and they may need exercise badly. I like to exercise them by performing a continuous rasguedo (pinky, ring, middle, index, repeat) for a few minutes or until my forearm hurts too much to continue.

[mrINFINITY]

Skinny Devil,

Yes you hit the strings with plenty of force. The distance between the two fingers is a little different question.
This may be a better way to explain it: You see how justin flings his hand back and forth as he does it? Well, don't do that at first because once you get a little more comfortable with it the flashy little swinging your hand madly look will come out anyway. Because it feels similar to me when i don't flip my hand, but it isn't quite as fast and doesn't look nearly as cool :) .
As lemur said it's probobly just muscles you aren't used to working out. If it was a normal rasgueado (Index, pinky, ring, middle, ect) i'd walk you through it a little more because there is a special way to learn it so you can learn to do it from the right joint in your fingers to keep your hand steady, but this triplet version is pretty straightforward, you just gotta practice practice practice. It tooik me at least a 2-3 weeks before i was comfortable doing the triplets and i still wasn't playing them as fast as justin king was in the video. It eventually comes though.

[SkinnyDevil]

OK - it's my late new year's resolution (hahaha!!!). I just thought I was doing something wrong. I've got an OK rasguedo, but I only use it for spice (I'm not a flamenco player by a long shot... just a blues-rock dog with a twisted sense of reality - hahaha!).

Thanx fo the tips, guys.

[lemur821]

Another thought on exercise: your leg makes a great substitute when there's no instrument handy. Practice (well, build stamina) anywhere, anytime!

[SkinnyDevil]

Leg, chair, table top.....I play everything but the kitchen sink. I tried to play it once, but my wife threw a spatula at me!

[lemur821]

Oh yes, anything.

You should have rasguedod your wife for that spatula trick. I would have.

[SkinnyDevil]

Query: Should a rasgueado ALWAYS be pinky to ring to middle to index? It occurs to me I typically do it in reverse (index to pinky). I've begun practising it both ways as of late.

[lemur821]

There are many different rasguedo patterns, using different combinations of the four fingers and thumb.

[mrINFINITY]

I'd recommend buying some Juan Serrano books. several of them have a couple pages full of rasgueado patterns in the front. Index to pinky is a pattern that is used sometimes, but not very often. The best IMHO is index, pinky, ring, middle (ISAM) for a straight 4 count, which is the same as going from your pinky to index, but your first beat is on the index finger instead. When I was taking lessons with Serrano he showed me the index to pinky rasgueado just messing around to confuse me. That seems to be all he really used it for, hehe.
But like lemur says, there are many different rasgueado patterns that create different textures and rhythms.

[SkinnyDevil]

Worth noting here the "pinky" issue. PIMA is pretty standard, but the pinky has been called S, C, i, and I just saw it referred to as X in a Mel Bay book.

Any idea why the lack of uniformity on that?

[lemur821]

I think there's no standard because it's used much less frequently than the other fingers. C, I think, comes from the Spanish name for the pinky, and fits in with the other finger names. X is probably used because it suggests "that other finger." I don't know about the other two.