Choosing the number of strings

[Dernier_recours]

Hello Tappers,

The choice of a manufacturer has been thoroughly reviewed in this forum. It looks like it's mainly a sentimental issue.

Fine.

But what about the number of strings? What are the pros and cons of 7 strings, 8, 10, 12, 14, 88? Some folks may propose to learn on more standard 12-strings (although rarely do the word "standard" is applied in the art of tapping) and to move on fewer strings if desired. Others may say that 8-strings are less complicated and learning to tap on fewer strings is faster. And there is the question of hands dimension : 14-strings are for giants, and 8 strings for the little ones. Maybe some would say that a viril man only use 12-strings and every woman has the moral duty to tap on graceful 7-strings...

What is your point?

Regards,

Dernier recours

[traktor]

After considerable reflection over several years (and after writing a number of lessons), I'm of the opinion that if the approach is CLEAR then progress will be good.

So, one way to look at this question is to see which stringing method seems clearest, so that your learning can be rapid. In this light, the 8-string approach would be simplest in some cases, especially if you were an existing bassist and simply wanted to extend your existing technique into two-handed play upon one string universe.

On the other two hands, however, if you're interested in learning the one-hand-per-stringset approach (which has the clarity of no overlap between hands), then two sets of six strings seems clearest, especially if you will eschew the needlessly-complex "Inverted Fifths" tuning. IMHO, there is no merit in learning to play in two different tunings simultaneously. This "Inverted Fifths" bass tuning is needlessly complex, slows learning, and produces no better results in the end, IMHO.

Within these parameters, if playing 8-string, I don't see what's gained by cutting off some of the strings to attain a 7- or 6-string instrument. When tuning is in straight fourths, the only thing this does in reduce your range.

Likewise, if playing in two stringsets, I don't see what's gained by cutting off some of the strings to attain a 5x5, or a 5x7, or a 4x6 instrument. Again this seems to do nothing except reduce your range. Kind of like cutting some of the keys off a piano -- It doesn't simplify you're learning or provide any benefit that I can see.

When we come to hand size, this is only an issue with *extremely* small hands. For small to large hands, you can reach across the widest neck *IF* your posture is upright and your left hand positioned so that your left wrist is straight or nearly straight. In this case, your reach is from the *web* of your thumb to your finger tips.

Of course, if you use a careless posture and you bend your left wrist, your reach is reduced to the distance from your knuckle to fingertip -- that is, you lose as much as two inches of reach!

But even with very, very small hands and with lousy playing posture, you can play the widest neck with no difficulty by selecting the "Uncrossed" string arrangement. The hand-size and reach is an illusionary issue. Lack of reach is created by only one thing: bad posture and a bent left wrist.

So, it appears to me that this all reduces down to one question:

What seems clearest to you?

[rjgoos]

I only have a month's experience, so I would not want to argue with Traktor...

I was once worried about hand size with regards to choosing a 10 string Stick/ADG vs a 12 string Stick/Megatar. I chose a 10 string Stick because of my hand size. I see now those fears were exaggerated. The problem with hand size is not with the width of the instrument as much as the distance between frets towards the "nut" end of the instrument (which will be a problem no matter how many strings the instrument has).

Regarding bass 5ths vs. 4ths tuning, Traktor's opinions are pretty clearly stated. I would not say that bass 5ths tuning is better than 4ths, just different.

If one wanted to re-tune the bass half of a 10-string Stick in 4ths, what would the suggested tunings be?


RJ

[traktor]

Hi, rjgoos,

There are several things nice about the Inverted Fifths tuning. For example, the tuning has a very nice set of left-hand chords.

My preference for bass in fourths is just that (a) I think it's easier to teach your hands ONE tuning rather than TWO tunings, and especially since you'll be playing them simultaneously; and (b) I think that bass in fourths is IMHO inherently a bit more POWERFUL, because it permits you to play three notes per string, before going to the next string, thus permitting simpler and more compact fingering; and (c) I believe that because the learning task is CLEARER, you advance FURTHER and FASTER.

It's just one person's opinion, of course. And if you're interested in trying it by retuning the inverted-fifths on your bass side, as I think you know I wrote a book spelling out how to do it. If you no gotto a copy, download it from the megatar site, in the Library's documents section. Adapting the tuning shown there to five bass strings should be pretty easy.

If you do experiment with this approach, I'd be interested to hear about your experience.

[rjgoos]

traktor wrote:

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>There are several things nice about the Inverted Fifths tuning. For example, the tuning has a very nice set of left-hand chords. <
---------


I agree, and the bass 5ths spacing makes the spacing of the individual notes on the chords wider, and a bit less 'muddy'. However, bass 5ths is definitely for large hands, particularly if you wish to hold the "root" note with your pinkie or index finger while hitting other notes on these chords. This is a bigger problem for me than the width of the fingerboard.


---------
>And if you're interested in trying it by retuning the inverted-fifths on your bass side, as I think you know I wrote a book spelling out how to do it. If you no gotto a copy, download it from the megatar site, in the Library's documents section. Adapting the tuning shown there to five bass strings should be pretty easy.<
---------


I downloaded it yesterday. I haven't had a vacation in two years, so I am taking most of September off, so I'll have time to try it in the next week or so. If 4ths are better for me, you'll be the first to know.


RJ

[rockola]

My $.02:

6 strings:
+ no initial investment if you already have a guitar, just check the setup and start tapping
+ use standard guitar tuning or retune in 4ths
- polyphonic chords and melody difficult to get at the same time
- bass in standard guitar scale (~25") instruments lacks the depth you get with a longer scale

7 strings:
+ a bit more flexibility than 6
+ 7-string guitars are available in music stores
- standard 7-string instruments only available in short scale

8 strings:
+ the standard for long-scale (34") single region tap guitars, so 2nd-hand instruments available
- two-region tunings not really possible

9 strings:
+ tuned in 4ths covers the whole range of the "standard" tuning
- only possible with custom instruments

10 strings:
+ the old standard, 2nd-hand instruments available
+ works well as 2-region with bass in inverted 5ths, melody in 4ths
- does not work well with bass in 4ths

11 strings:
+ very good for a tap guitar with 5ths bass (bass side as on a 10-string, melody side as on a 12-string)
- only possible with custom instruments

12 strings:
+ the current standard, 2nd-hand instruments available
+ very good for 2-region playing with bass in either 4ths or 5ths
- fretboard is wider, so instrument gets heavier

13 or more strings:
If you're looking for such a beast, you already know what your instrument should be like and thus have no need for my tips... ;)

As far as I know, the world record for tap guitars is currently set at 17 strings.

[rjgoos]

I think Ola described things very well.

Right now (after only a month's experience, so take it for what it is worth), I am thinking that my next tap/touch instrument will be an 8 string model....but not for reasons Ola listed.

Most 8 string instruments are more-or-less extended bass guitars, tuned in 4ths.

I am an old fingerpicker, and it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks, as they say.

If I were to design a touch/tap instrument to appeal to a fingerpicker, it would be:

4 melody strings, tuned in ascending 4ths, tuned the same as strings 2-5 of a 10-string stick in "classic" tuning (leaving off the highest string)

4 bass strings, tuned in inverted 5ths, tuned the same as strings 7-10 of a 10-string stick in classic tuning (leaving off the lowest string).

That little extra gap between the melody and bass set of strings is nice.

It might help if the scale of the instrument was not quite so BIG...maybe a 30 or 32 inch instrument instead of 34. See below...

I think what I described above would give something closer to what a fingerpicker had in his six string guitar, a little lower in the bass range, but about the same range on the high end. I never use the low, low string or the high, high string on my 10-string stick, so I say give me an instrument that doesn't have them, and make the fretboard 20% narrower.

I don't think anything like this exists in the marketplace.


RJ Goos


P.S. Most of these instruments (Stick, Grand Stick, Megatar, Warr) all are way too big, trying to do everything. That probably explains why there are so few women among our ranks...these are indeed heavy, cumbersome, and intimidating instruments, on the whole. As far as I can tell, the companies that produce these things are only thinking bigger and bigger (I see SE is coming out with a 36 inch scale instrument now...).

[traktor]

The Santucci TrebleBass, if you can find one, is very close to what you describe, and you could also adapt one of Stewart Box's Box Guitars somewhat. Both of these have shorter scale lengths, making the instrument shorter and lighter.

The trade off, as Ola mentioned earlier, is that short scale lengths tend to sound great on guitar-gauge strings, but kind of weak on bass-gauge strings. My opinion is that the lust for bass is the primary reason for the tendency of manufacturers to go for long scale length instruments.

The Santucci has four bass and six guitar strings, not too different from your description. (And you could always cut two strings off the melody side ;)

The Box guitar has six and six, so lots more strings that you describe, but they do have guitar-type lengths. I've played the Santucci and liked it. Have never played a Box Guitar. Glenn Drakeley is the only person I know who has reported about it, and if I recall correctly he liked it.

Naturally, the Box would be more of a natural for somebody who wished to play dual guitar. I've been mostly playing what I call 'bi-melody' (no it's not a sexual thing!), and I like it a lot -- comping or arpeggiating left hand while playing melody, improv, and rhythmic chord hits right-hand. I've been playing on the (long-scale) megatar, and it sounds good, but I'm quite curious to hear what a shorter-length neck would sound like. However, I have no immediate plans to make one. (Busy settling into my new home in Mount Shasta, CA. (See The Adventures of Bloggard (http://www.bloggard.com) if interested.)

Anybody else here ever heard or played a Santucci or a Box Guitar?

[rockola]

I never use the low, low string (...) on my 10-string I guess your style doesn't include left hand chords then. That probably explains why there are so few women among our ranks...these are indeed heavy, cumbersome, and intimidating instruments, on the whole. There are quite a few women playing the harp, which is far heavier and more cumbersome, and to me at least quite intimidating as well...

[rjgoos]

Ola wrote:

> I guess your style doesn't include left hand chords then.<


Well, none that go that low... String 7 on a Stick in classic tuning goes more than a fifth below the low E on a regular guitar, which has been more than low enough for what I have done so far. I try going to the lowest string, but it just doesn't seem to fit. Now, if I were asked to fill in for a bass player in a band, I'd be very glad to have that lowest string...

Actually an Austin Douglas ADG-8 could be close to what I described, if the strings were set up as I described before. The only problem is that an instrument like that has only one pickup, and there would be overlap in the tuning range, mostly in the two highest bass strings and two lowest melody strings. I would guess that such a set up could cause some cancelling or muddiness not evident in a two pickup instrument? Anyone have a thought on that? Would that be a problem?


RJ Goos

[rockola]

Frankly, I don't think having inverted 5ths would make much sense on an 8-string, since you wouldn't get the extended interval chords that are characteristic of the 5ths tuning anyway. Why do you think it would be better than uniform 4ths?

Overlap in tuning range might let you play minor seconds, something not that easy on "standard" 4ths-inverted 5ths tuning.

[vsteele]

I have been playing my Megatar with dual bass tunings in fourths and agree with rocola that having overlap tunings is a plus. When I played two basses (before I got the Megatar) they were always in two different tunings. I simplified things by having two of the same tuning on the Megatar and BOOM!! I can play intervals (particularly seconds) that I never played before. It has opened up some very interesting voicings that I never imagined not to mention the simplicity. After trying to make music more and more complex, I always return to simpler ideas eventually.:D

V