Do you loop?

[PhoBucket]

After seeing an outstanding looper performance by Bill Burke at FredTap, I've been checking out different looping pedals. Do any of you work with loopers? Any favorite peices of gear (RC-50, 2880, Boomerang?)?

[jamsire]

Digitech PDS 1000

OoooooH!

[adde65]

Hi,

It depends on how serious you want to get. Many people consider looping another "instrument", requiring a lot of effort and financial investment.

I don't currently use looping, but I'm curious about the new Boomerang III. Looks very full-featured for a floor unit (it has been held back for about a year though, so who knows when it will actually be released).

Steve Lawson uses Looperlative to great effect, but it's a more expensive option. Steve is one of the best looping artists on the planet IMO, and a brilliant source of information. Here's a starting point:
http://www.stevelawson.net/wordpress/2007/11/looperlative_la/

You might also look at running e.g. Ableton Live on a laptop with pedal controllers. I think cellist Zoe Keating (another fave of mine) uses this type of setup.

Cheers,
Andy

[arsacane]

Many people consider looping another "instrument", requiring a lot of effort and financial investment

I agree with Andy here... But that effort can pay a lot! There are number of people doing amazing stuff with loopers!

Here is an RC-50 demo that I found really good & funny
RC-50 demo by Rico Loop (http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2006/07/19/snamm06-possibly-the-ultimate-boss-rc-50-demo/)

And as tapper I really like what Guillermo Cides does
Allaire festival in 2005(?) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BTYdKGH8yg)
Playing Bach (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Ys5olyY2I)

Cides used to use 1 or 2(?) RC-20.


Enjoy it, Daniel.

[jamsire]

This is what I use - but not in a performing situation. I use it to get my ideas in flow.

Sexy.

[lwclaypool]

Bill Burke is brilliant! And a heckuva nice guy, too.

I use an RC-50 quite a bit in my work; it was used significantly on "One Feather Shy" and I plan to use it again on my next project. I run it in stereo and use two FV-500L pedals, one as a volume pedal controlling the stereo master out volume and the other as an expression pedal controlling the volume of each of the three loops. I also use an FS-6 dual footswitch with one switch set to reverse the active loop and the other to delete the active loop; both of these functions can be done directly on the unit but are much easier to access with the footswitch.

I generally have the three loops programmed in unsynced mode, meaning they function independently of each other. You can also sync them, if you wish. The RC-50 works nicely for me.

[PhoBucket]

Thanks for all of the responses.

Andy,
I was familiar with Steve Lawson (awesome..some him at NAMM a few years ago), but non of the others. Also, Ableton Live looks like it has come a long way since I last used it (2003/4?), but I was not really using it as a looper.

Loren,
That's cool to here that the RC-50 is working well for you, and that you used it on your last cd (which is very good btw). It seems like there have been alot of negative reviews on Harmony Central recently, but maybe those people just haven't spent enough time with it.

Daniel,
RicoLoop is fun. I can't beatbox worth a damn, but I am really digging this clip.
Reggie Watts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CrL-lfqXoc)

Ernie,
I'd probably be using it as a practice/writing tool at first. Record a chorus or two of walking bass, then comping, then solo over the loop etc.

Thanks,
Ben

[lwclaypool]

Ben,

Re: RC-50, I've read and heard some of the same things, just haven't experienced them. I'll say this, it is a complicated piece of gear and requires a commitment on the part of the user. The manual is tough, but informative. The RC-50 has a lot of flexibility and needs to be understood; it's one of the few pieces of gear where after a couple of years I still refer to the manual. With all that said, the RC-50 has worked and continues to work for me.

I'm gearing up, both literally and figuratively, for the next release. I've upgraded my studio computer, added some software, added two new instruments with one more on the way, added a couple of effects, and am upgrading to a POD X3 Pro. I expect to begin recording just after the holidays.

Take care,

Loren

[Try'n2Tap]

Hello,

I just started trying to use some loops in my playing. I use the Digitech GNX4. I already had it from playing guitar and just found out that it has looping capabilities. It works out pretty well considering it is an eight track recorder so you can layer 8 different track.
It end up being the Digitech JamMan Looper. It is really easy to use. Here is a video I posted using it the first night: (disclaimer) the sound is not the best as it is recorded with a digital camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydW-rBn-cs8

[GaryOpenhill]

[B]

Here is an RC-50 demo that I found really good & funny
RC-50 demo by Rico Loop (http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2006/07/19/snamm06-possibly-the-ultimate-boss-rc-50-demo/)

.

How much coffee did that guy have???

But seriously, that guy is good and fun to watch and very interesing. Didn't care for the blow-keyboard thing tho!

What i don't get is: what is it that he does that can't be done on a rc 20?

[rpaalanen]

My looping setup currently uses a Line 6 DL-4 and Ableton running SooperLooper (http://www.essej.net/sooperlooper/) as a plugin. It's a very nice piece of software, with the added bonuses (boni?) of being free and having a really enthusiastic developer who loves to hear ideas from users. Bugfixes usually come on a two-day turnaround. Only works on OSX, though.

[PhoBucket]

My looping setup currently uses a Line 6 DL-4 and Ableton running SooperLooper (http://www.essej.net/sooperlooper/) as a plugin. It's a very nice piece of software, with the added bonuses (boni?) of being free and having a really enthusiastic developer who loves to hear ideas from users. Bugfixes usually come on a two-day turnaround. Only works on OSX, though.

Don't Scofield and Frisell use DL-4s? Someday I'm going to convert my laptop into a triple boot Vista/Ubuntu/Hackstation machine.

[lwclaypool]

I've seen several references recently to SooperLooper so I decided to see what the buzz was about. I've been running it this week as an AU plug-in in Ableton Live and I'm very impressed! I have some learning curve ahead of me as relates to MIDI controllers with the software, but expect SooperLooper to be part of my tool kit moving forward.

I upgraded my studio in prep for the upcoming album. The config consists of a 2.8gHz MacBook Pro with 4GB running Pro Tools LE 8, Ableton Live 7, SoundToys Native 3.1, POD Farm Platinum and fxPansion VST->RTAS for a handful of VSTs I wish to use. SooperLooper was a late and unplanned addition. I can imagine a wonderfully portable live looping rig consisting of the laptop, mBox 2, a small MIDI foot controller, and a guitar. Exciting stuff.

[jamsire]

I've seen several references recently to SooperLooper so I decided to see what the buzz was about. I've been running it this week as an AU plug-in in Ableton Live and I'm very impressed! I have some learning curve ahead of me as relates to MIDI controllers with the software, but expect SooperLooper to be part of my tool kit moving forward.

I upgraded my studio in prep for the upcoming album. The config consists of a 2.8gHz MacBook Pro with 4GB running Pro Tools LE 8, Ableton Live 7, SoundToys Native 3.1, POD Farm Platinum and fxPansion VST->RTAS for a handful of VSTs I wish to use. SooperLooper was a late and unplanned addition. I can imagine a wonderfully portable live looping rig consisting of the laptop, mBox 2, a small MIDI foot controller, and a guitar. Exciting stuff.

Hi there.

Curious as to why use the SooperLooper in Ableton Live when that's exactly what Live does. Just seeing what your take on it is.

Thanks.

[lactose]

lwclaypool: I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the POD X3 Pro when you get it.

A friend brought the RC-50 and demo'd it for me. Really cool. I would like to experiment with one using it to add in occasional parts. I am not such a fan of things repeating over and over.

[lwclaypool]

Curious as to why use the SooperLooper in Ableton Live when that's exactly what Live does.

Jamsire, perhaps you can educate me a bit on this! I was after the EDP experience and functionality, which I could never figure out how to get directly in Live. By dropping SooperLooper or Mobius plug-ins in Live, I am able to work like I am working with an Echoplex. Of course with yesterday's announcement about v8 of Live, we'll have an EDP-like looper in Live. Yes!

How do you use pre-v8 versions of Live for live looping?

[lwclaypool]

lwclaypool: I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the POD X3 Pro when you get it.

I am thrilled with the POD X3 Pro and with the POD Farm plug-in. I've been using the POD gear since the original "bean" and have upgraded through the different releases. "One Feather Shy" was recorded almost exclusively with a POD XT and POD X3.

I find the X3 Pro to be sonically excellent with tremendous signal routing capabilities both inside the unit and with the outside world. The dual path function is huge. And having the ability to insert other signal processors in the loop is powerful.

The added ability to run all of the models as a plug-in, at no additional cost, allows one to further tweak or manipulate the parts after the fact. The ability to manipulate, filter, and mangle away after the performance without re-routing the signal from your DAW through the hardware and back is convenient. You could even record a completely dry signal in your DAW and use the plug-in for your amp modeling; you would never be committed to any tone! I don't work that way because how I play is interactive with the tone I'm after, but it is possible.

I begin recording "Breathe" tomorrow. The POD X3 Pro will be the cornerstone processor for all of my instruments on the recording.

[jamsire]

Jamsire, perhaps you can educate me a bit on this! I was after the EDP experience and functionality, which I could never figure out how to get directly in Live. By dropping SooperLooper or Mobius plug-ins in Live, I am able to work like I am working with an Echoplex. Of course with yesterday's announcement about v8 of Live, we'll have an EDP-like looper in Live. Yes!

How do you use pre-v8 versions of Live for live looping?

There are so many youtube videos that would show you better.

I use it with a foot controller and switch and set up - everything!

Plus, you can use a macro recording program and tell the program all the necessary steps to loopville.

[lwclaypool]

Jamsire,

I understand about capturing phrases realtime in Live and looping them, but I'm not seeing anything about overdubbing or sound-on-sound kinds techniques like in an EDP, RC-50, SooperLooper kind of environment. Are you doing the former or the latter in Live?

Thanks,

Loren

[jamsire]

Jamsire,

I understand about capturing phrases realtime in Live and looping them, but I'm not seeing anything about overdubbing or sound-on-sound kinds techniques like in an EDP, RC-50, SooperLooper kind of environment. Are you doing the former or the latter in Live?

Thanks,

Loren

I just may not understand what you're needs are.

Sorry.

[lwclaypool]

Sorry this dialog got confusing. I was asking the question to see if you had a technique I hadn't been able to discover. Let me try to simplify and get back to your original question.

As I understand it, pre-v8 Live does not have the ability to overdub in an audio clip in realtime. It certainly does in a MIDI clip. So, if your idea of realtime looping is to create a clip and have it loop, then perhaps create another clip and have it loop, etc., then Live in its native form works great. And that's a perfectly valid approach, just not the one I normally use.

If, on the other hand, you wish to record an audio clip in realtime, then overdub on top of it in realtime, repeat and rinse, pre-v8 Live doesn't do that. That's the EDP-like function that is missing for me, at least as I understand Live. That's the point of the Looper function Ableton is adding to v8. I use the overdub capability on the RC-50 and in SooperLooper quite a bit. And, of course, once I have a loop where I want it, I'll often add another loop and build it up, too. And so on.

With SooperLooper one can also set feedback to less than 100%, causing a loop to gradually drop off its earliest components while more are being adding in overdub mode. This allows for a loop to change organically over time. As I understand it, this something that pre-v8 Live can't do either. The Looper Ableton is adding to v8 has a feedback control, too!

So, unless Live can overdub an audio clip in realtime and drop off early loop components while adding new ones, Live and SooperLooper (or Mobius, etc.) don't do exactly the same thing. If Live can do these things, I don't understand how and hopefully someone can point out to me what I'm missing.

I'm stoked about v8!

Thanks,

Loren

[jamsire]

So, unless Live can overdub an audio clip in realtime and drop off early loop components while adding new ones, Live and SooperLooper (or Mobius, etc.) don't do exactly the same thing. If Live can do these things, I dont' understand how and hopefully someone can point out to me what I'm missing.


Live 7 can do this stuff just with different clips. Again, you have to just watch a bunch youtube videos to see it. It's really too much for me to write about and explain, since I have been using Live since V2. I also beta-tested V7. For the record - the "MIDI" thing is relatively new - since V4.

Enjoy Live 8 - which won't be out until late April, until then, youtube has your answers.

BTW - NAMM stunk this year. nothing to post.

[lwclaypool]

Live 7 can do this stuff just with different clips.

Sounds like you've got Live working the way you wish to work. I'm happy with SooperLooper inside of Live, no complaints here. It's solid and does exactly what I want it to do and how I want it to do it. I expect to switch to the Ableton looper plug-in when v8 comes out as its modeled on the same principles.

Take care,

Loren

[jeffcomas]

I recently purchased a RC-50. It seems that there is a short pause (well dead air time really) between the the end of the 1st recording & beginning of the 1st playback. :eek: Anyone else experience this? Know what to do about it?

http://www.myspace.com/jeffcomas

[lwclaypool]

I recently purchased a RC-50. It seems that there is a short pause (well dead air time really) between the the end of the 1st recording & beginning of the 1st playback. :eek: Anyone else experience this? Know what to do about it?

Jeff, a friend of mine contacted me a couple of weeks ago with the same issue. I had never noticed it but did some testing a few days ago and was able to confirm the issue you and he described. BTW, I am updated to the latest version of the firmware. In my testing I found:
1) If I played a riff or multi-note passage and wrapped the loop there was no issue.
2) If I faded a sustained note out before wrapping the loop, no issue.
3) If I sustained a note while wrapping the loop initially, the "dead air" showed up.
4) On any subsequent sustained notes played in the loop, their was no additional "dead air", in other words, "dead air" only showed up on the initial wrap.
5) I tested in both synced and unsynced modes and got the same results.

This led me to the conclusion that there is a hiccup only in establishing the initial loop, not any shortening or lengthening of the loop or other timing considerations, just the few milliseconds it took the device to wrap the loop the first time. This conclusion resonated with the results my friend was experiencing.

I have used the RC-50 since its release without noticing this issue! As best I can determine, it's because of the way I work with the RC-50, essentially creating the hole in what I play on the first loop pass.

I have not heard of any other work arounds.

[jeffcomas]

Loren,

Thanks for your post, I appreciate your time. Also I went to your myspace page and listened to your music. I enjoyed both the compositions & the performances. Are you using the RC-50 in any of those recordings?

And.
1) If I played a riff or multi-note passage and wrapped the loop there was no issue.
2) If I faded a sustained note out before wrapping the loop, no issue.
3) If I sustained a note while wrapping the loop initially, the "dead air" showed up.
4) On any subsequent sustained notes played in the loop, their was no additional "dead air", in other words, "dead air" only showed up on the initial wrap.
5) I tested in both synced and unsynced modes and got the same results.
By wrapped do you you mean the conclusion of the loop, like when I re-tap the pedal to conclude the 1st loop?

I also only have issue with the 1st loop.

Thanks again for your time

http://www.myspace.com/jeffcomas

[lwclaypool]

Jeff, thanks for listening to my music and your kind comments!

On the songs currently on MySpace, Road Trip, Fight Or Flight G4, First Lightand Good Things, Good People, I used the RC-50 on First Light. It's a perfect example of "avoiding the hole", if you will; the repeating "sprinkles" are an RC-50 loop that I built up in multiple passes. The tremolo baritone guitar and melody were recorded straight through. The other three pieces do not utilize loops. Both First Light and Good Things, Good People are from my 2008 release One Feather Shy. The other two pieces are Guitar Craft-oriented acoustic guitar quartets.

And yes, by "wrap" I mean the conclusion of the loop on the first pass.

Thanks,

Loren