Deciding on first tap instrument

[timwat]

Hello all - I am considering learning a tap instrument and am looking for some guidance. I have never played a tap instrument before, first saw a Stick played 25 years ago and have wanted to learn ever since.

I am an experienced pianist & keyboard player, background is classical and jazz. Have gone through a lot of theory, gigging and recording. Currently am the worship pastor at my church, playing every Sunday.

One of my concerns is that my hands are relatively small - for you golfers out there, I wear a cadet small glove - so huge stretches of 10ths and 11ths in Chopin and Liszt have always proven impossible for me, as have machine-gun octaves. But I have pretty fast fingers. My attempts at bass guitar have been a little tough, especially on longer scale instruments.

Is this a problem when I look at the 10- vs. 12-string Stick versions? What about older vs. newer models? Considerations with the different fret options?

Also, is there an 'easier' tap instrument to learn than the Stick? I don't want to purchase a Warr for my first instrument given the price, don't know what else is out there.

Finally, can any experienced keyboard players provide any anectodal comments about how long it takes to get nominally proficient on a tap instrument?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Tim

[rockola]

Hi Tim, welcome to Tappistry.Org :)

If you're uncomfortable with bass scale instruments, perhaps something like the Santucci Treblebass would suit you. It's a 10-string instrument, strung like a guitar and a bass, with a short scale (25" or so). Unfortunately they're not made anymore, but I suspect there are some going around in the second hand market. Our very own Traktor used to have one, and I'm sure he'll chime in with details. Also, Stu Box (http://www.bme.com.au) makes tap guitars with pretty much any scale you'd like - his website mentions 24.75", 25.2" and 25.5" in addition to bass scales.

Most tap guitars (with the notable exception of the Bunker Touch Guitar) are played in a similar fashion, so they are all pretty much the same when it comes to learning how to play. However, the tuning is an important factor. See Daniel Schell's excellent tuning page at the Clic Music (http://www.clicmusic.be/) website for a detailed explanation. I am not speaking with too much experience here, but the uncrossed 4ths-4ths tuning seems to me to be easier to learn than the traditional crossed 5ths-4ths which I first learned (and still use) - I tried an instrument tuned in that fashion last year at Neufchateau and was immediately comfortable with it even though I had learned to play on a different tuning.

I used to play keyboards (took piano lessons for 10 years as a kid) before I took up the tap guitar. For the first six months, I got nowhere with my playing. I didn't have a clue how to touch the strings, for instance. Then I went to the seminar in Belgium for a week and became "nominally proficient". So, I would say that it depends on your teacher. Without one I probably would never had learned how to play and would have sold the instrument in frustration. It would be a big help if you could at least get someone to show you the basics. The fundamental things can't be learned from books.

[timwat]

Ola -

Thanks so much for your guidance and suggestions. Is there an easy reference on the site to find instructors in the San Francisco Bay Area?

[Octavio Brito]

Hi Tim,

My situation seems to be similar to yours.

I am a pianist, clasical and jazz training, and I did extensive professional work in the NE and Rio de Janeiro area, graduated Berklee, etc. etc. And my hands are small, so Lizst and Chopin stretches were always beyond me. At most I can do a minor 10th in C, but not 100% comfortably.

I saw the Stick at a NAMM show and spent a lot of time deciding on when to get one. That is my only regret, I wish I had gotten one sooner.

I started on a Grand Stick, and purchased a 12-string Warr a year later. I use matched reciprocal tuning, because I like the harmonic possibilities it allows on the left hand and because I like the symetry.

I think of the instrument as I would on a solo piano: Bass and chords on the left hand and melody and chords on the right.

Initially, I fought with the difference in size between the Warr and the Stick. But at this point, I have found that the fact that the Warr has a bigger scale allows me to play richer harmonies on the left hand.

The right hand has never been an issue, but the 4ths tuning helps in developing hand/ ear coordination, after all the intervals are always the same.

I think that all instruments are equally difficult, and that it is a matter of personal choice as to how difficult one makes it.

I play regularly and have been doing so for about three years. I have worked on putting together a "learning" repetoire and every new song I learn adds something to the old ones. Recently, I started transposing some piano tunes to the Warr and the results have been great.

From a pianists point-of -view, one must understand that a string instrument is completely diiferent, specially in terms of visualization of the relationships between chords and scales. I find that when I play the piano, I rely on this while on the Warr I trust my ears. When I play piano I have the habit of looking at the keyboard while on the Warr I rarely do.

As to when a person becomes proficient, I can't say. My current schedule does not allow for the same level of practice as when I studied piano (6 -8 hours per day), I'm happy if one hour during the week and 2-4 on weekends.

But it is a very satisfying instrument, and the degree of expression that is possible is enormous, specially when compared to a piano.i.e. bends, glisses and finger positioning on the fret can produce significant changes.

At this point, I can play many standards, some piano music from Jarrett, Tyner and Chick, some rock/ fusion and of course the brazilian stuff.

Hope this helps.

Octavio

[traktor]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this fact, but if you have unusually small hands, there are two things to do --

1) Be sure you experiment with positioning. The lower the tuners, the less reach you have. This sounds odd, but if you get the tuners high and you have an upright posture, your left wrist is straight and your left hand's reach runs from the web of your thumb to finger tips. If you have tuners low and left wrist bent, your reach is from mid-palm to fingertips, usually at least two inches less. (See drawing in Easy Touch Style Bassics for illustration of correct upright posture.)

2) Although I don't like it much myself, many folks, including Jim Wright on this forum, use Uncrossed tuning. Placing bass strings for left hand on (your) left side of instrument, means halving the reach. Ditto for right hand. For me this feels cramped and less oriented. Generally I think correct posture on even the widest fretboard makes all notes accessible; however Uncrossed tuning really addresses the issue.

Now, making things easier --

In my experience, the one thing you can do to make a VAST improvement in ease of learning is to avoid the needlessly complicated bass strings in fifths. Fifths has some interesting features, but they're not worth the additional complexity, and Bass Fourths has a greater power, simplicity, and learning speed. Others opinions may vary. See Easy Touch-Style Bassics for explanation and learning method for bass in fourths. Method book is available in documents section on megatar.com.

Whatever choice you make, I think you'll find the path to be rewarding. I came from keyboard, taken up late in life. On keyboard, I found composition effortless, but never developed good skill at playing. On tap-instrument, I liked the feeling of the strings beneath my fingers. It felt home.

Good luck!

[Octavio Brito]

Traktor:

Good points. Do you mean regular fourths or inverted fourths?

I understand your position perfectly. From a scalar point the fourths are significantly easier.

From a pianist's point of view though, you do get an extra octave on a three fret span in fifths vs. fourths. 3 octaves vs. 2.

Also, if for example, you take three basic chords, Major 7, Minor 7 and Dominant 7, constructed only using the essentials, Root, third, seventh, inverting only third and seventh. In fifths these chords are built spanning 2 to 3 frets; in fourths they would require a 3 to 5 fret span. Also, in fifths these chords require a 4 to 5 string span where as in fourths they would require a 5 to 6 string span.

From my own personal view, this seems much easier as it requires less effort to play these chords. Also, it places the bass more than an octave away, which allows more space to build a bass line.

Of course, if I were to take a bass player's approach, I can see your point.

I guess that there are many ways of looking at the same object.

Octavio

[wmlusk]

I was a bass player, split-tuned tapper, now an 8-stringer (5ths) and I've never been happier!

If you are a guitarist and want to be a tapper then an eight-string tuned in 4ths would be worth looking at. All your guitar hero tricks would still apply while you added tapping into your grab-bag.

I've had my 8-string Warr TGSS and it has been the best instrument I've ever owned bar none.

[traktor]

Originally posted by Octavio Brito
Of course, if I were to take a bass player's approach, I can see your point.
I guess that there are many ways of looking at the same object.
Octavio
Hi, Octavio,

You've identified it exactly. If you are primarily chording left hand, the fifths tuning has some advantages. But if you are both chording and playing bass, or doubling the melody, then fourths has advantages.

In either event, though, my opinion is that *learning* takes only about 60% as long when you have both sides tuned in fourths, and ascending in the same direction. That is because, using the proper method, you can train both hands simultaneously and identically. Less to learn, doubled practice effect, and greater clarity of vision.

However, *IF* you are among the 15% of the human race who processess things mentally using touch as the strongest mode, rather than the 65% of the human race who processes things mentally using vision as the strongest mode, then you may prefer 'Mirror Fourths' to get the fastest learning.

That's my 2 cents.

[vsteele]

I strongly agree with Traktor that the fourths tuning greatly shorten the learning process. After owning a 10-string stick with inverted fifths, I found the left and right hand patterns confusing and cumbersome. The fourths tuning also seems to have a better "sound" on the longer scale instruments.

I must add however that I have always been a stringed instrument player so I came from a world of fourths. This may have made me a bit prejudiced.

V

[timwat]

Traktor -

First of all, thank you for your fine tome on "touch style bassics" - I downloaded it from the website and have been studying it regularly. I am intrigued by your comments on learning theory and your conclusions thereof.

BTW - Taking the other responses to date, as a pianist coming to the instrument, I have no previous "4ths" bias to overcome (or to assist).

Your chapter regarding "5ths-bottom" (i.e., standard Stick bass tuning) inverted replication of the treble side is a mind-bender, but does seem to present some cool options in parallel motion.

I ended up ordering a new 10-string extended scale from Stick enterprises (same length scale as normal stick, but with an extra fret to extend low octave), for now have it ordered for baritone melody.

Tim