please

[tapmeister]

Traktor, please stop sending me private emails. I'm not interested in the BFTS or anything else you have to offer.

Listening to and watching your own demo videos has convinced me more than ever that you are barking up a tree of limited appeal, with regards to tunings, intonation, learning method, tone, ergonomics, you name it. Your instrument is not an improvement on The Stick in any way that I can see (or hear), nor is it a good substitute. It might appeal to some people, but not to me.

The Stick is a success because of how it sounds and how it plays and feels. If you can't sell your instruments without putting it down, then maybe you need to make your instruments better.

I had hoped that back in December we were turning a corner, and that the kinds of anti-Stick postings that I had been reading from you for years would stop. Maybe I'm not wrong, maybe they will. Maybe this is just an aberration. I hope so.

Additionally, perhaps you will consider applying the same rules to yourself in running your forum that you expect of others. You knew that a discussion of progressive music and tapping would be mostly about Tony Levin and The Stick, and you couldn't resist the opportunity to to **** all over it.

[traktor]

Golly, Greg,

Wouldn't it have been nice if you had the courtesy to reply to me privately, as I did with you, and with the same courtesy that I extended to you in my email to you?

I won't comment on your ability to read minds, nor your swearing, though I would ask you to refrain. You're a valuable resource and have much useful information.

It seems like offering my opinion was OK, but I'm sorry if you got your feelings hurt. I didn't realize this was such a sensitive issue, and I'm sorry you feel you must post like this. I'm not anti-Stick, though I certainly am pro-Feiten, and in that regard it seems I'm in good company.

But, sure, if you want to have no communication channel open, please consider as closed the offer I made to you.

And I hope we can let this non-productive thread drop, and move on. Feedback suggests that people don't want to hear this kind of stuff, and squabbling doesn't advance the interests of anyone.

As regards not sending private messages to you, consider your point taken.

[rjgoos]

Well, Traktor got his digs in with regards to the Stick, and Greg got his digs in with regards to the Megatar.


Someone please send me an e-mail when this is over.

[tapmeister]

Originally posted by traktor
Golly, Greg,

Wouldn't it have been nice if you had the courtesy to reply to me privately, as I did with you, and with the same courtesy that I extended to you in my email to you?

I won't comment on your ability to read minds, nor your swearing, though I would ask you to refrain. You're a valuable resource and have much useful information.

It seems like offering my opinion was OK, but I'm sorry if you got your feelings hurt. I didn't realize this was such a sensitive issue, and I'm sorry you feel you must post like this. I'm not anti-Stick, though I certainly am pro-Feiten, and in that regard it seems I'm in good company.

But, sure, if you want to have no communication channel open, please consider as closed the offer I made to you.

And I hope we can let this non-productive thread drop, and move on. Feedback suggests that people don't want to hear this kind of stuff, and squabbling doesn't advance the interests of anyone.

As regards not sending private messages to you, consider your point taken.
I once wrote some private emails to you, only to find you trotting them out on this very forum, so perhaps you'll forgive me for having this exchange in public.

It's not my feelings that you hurt by your comments, but it is the reputation of the instrument I play. In order for the intonation on an instrument to be improved - for it to sound more in tune - then it would first have to be out of tune. There's really no other way around it.

Since your own demo video is full of chords that don't sound in tune to my ears, how could I take your opinion on the matter seriously?

Okay, I'm done. Are you checking his demo video to see if I'm right?

Consider this little bit of theater to be my point.

You don't have to be right to sew seeds of doubt in people's minds. Am I right? does it matter?

Maybe this is a tactic it's time for you to abandon. If you believe in what you're doing you shouldn't need it any more.

[K Rex]

I just wanted to pop in and say HI.

Since it's none of my business and we should all just just let this issue die but since it never does and the same people usually jump on board and well since the arguments generally begin in threads about something else and because we're all so tired of this that we just want to know when it's over and gee wouldn't it be great if we could all get along and respect each other's cool touchboard but we can't call it a touchboard but I'd like to have one but it's so darned expensive and my touchboard I mean tapguitar is pretty much cheaper than the other one cause it's made of compressed horse**** but we can't get one anyway due to the five year wait so I gotta pay a guy named after feces to make me one out of salvaged dumpster wood and I can't play the durned thing anyway cause my tuning isn't as good as your tuning and why oh why oh can't we get along and wasn't there some kind of new peace between us and some guy who never posted before said it was ok to have different axes and I just want a warr guitar but they're too heavy and besides no one wants to hear this but we all know it's gonna be the most read thread and where's jamsire when you need him he's the only one who really really really dropped this crapola the first time we did this and I just know he's silently laughing his ass off right now 'cause he's normal and we ain't but even so he secretly wants to post and maybe he will but it don't matter 'cause he plays a stick and a megatar so he must be REALLY messed up no one could play both.

I just wanted to save myself some time by getting all this out of the way.

Tennis, anyone?

K

[Nightmare Music]

Originally posted by K Rex
Tennis, anyone?

K

Right on!

[boxguitarist]

Howzabout you both take your bovine shizer out of this Forum ?? Even I grow tired of your relentless sparring, give us all a break already.

[jamsire]

With my:

Stick #1
Stick #2
Meggy #1
Meggy #2
Midi Meggy #3
Meggy #4
Box #1
Tapladder #1

And watch you all jam and make awesome music.

It's all the same note "C" at the end of the day. How we play that is what makes things wonderful.

BTW Greg - I'm doing Goodbye Porkpie Hat with Guitar Ensemble at Wagner College - all because of your video!

Groove on!

[AlanKroeger]

Originally posted by jamsire

BTW Greg - I'm doing Goodbye Porkpie Hat with Guitar Ensemble at Wagner College - all because of your video!

I really like that one too I haven't gotten started on a tapping, guitar, version of that tune. No doubt I love that tune as done by Greg. :)

Hey I got an idea!
How about everybody just shut up on the which tapper is better topic, I mean both parties :), and we just continue along discussing generic tapping topics. :)
I haven't got any doubt about the quality of a Stick and it's ability to intone well or whether a Megatar could work fine too.
Just a thought... :)

Make note of excessive use of smiley's that is intended to indicate that I like hearing from all parties. Let's all try to be nice and respectful to each other... :)

[tapmeister]

Originally posted by AlanKroeger
I really like that one too I haven't gotten started on a tapping, guitar, version of that tune. No doubt I love that tune as done by Greg. :)

Hey I got an idea!
How about everybody just shut up on the which tapper is better topic, I mean both parties :), and we just continue along discussing generic tapping topics. :)
I haven't got any doubt about the quality of a Stick and it's ability to intone well or whether a Megatar could work fine too.
Just a thought... :)

Make note of excessive use of smiley's that is intended to indicate that I like hearing from all parties. Let's all try to be nice and respectful to each other... :)
Hi Alan and Ernie,

I think that piece of music is one of the greatest ever composed and I can only hope to do it justice.

Ernie, I'd love to see or hear your school ensemble's version.

And to everyone else who's chimed in here (Glen, Krex, Jay): Thanks for your comments. I started this thread to have one place for kvetching about what I've written or what Traktor has written.

Maybe it won't be necessary for more to be posted in it, but if you have a beef with something I've written, please feel free. Air it out. This should help keep discussions in other places on topic and make it harder for them to get hijacked.

Consider it an ombudsman page.

As long as my name is on the list of players in the resources section, and as long as my name is in the keywords of this website, and as long as people expecting to find a substantive discussion about tapping and The Stick find this forum, I'll participate.

Until Trakor gets tired of it and kicks me off again.

Happy Tapping,
Greg

[traktor]

Hi, Greg,

Of course, sometimes we annoy each other. That's a fact.

But so what?

It's not important in the long run, or in the larger picture. I'm sure you'd agree, because you've said the same thing now and then.

And even if your views are different than my own, you are generally welcome here. Your views have interest and merit, and as more and more people learn how fun it is to play by using two hands on the strings, more great music will be created, more musicians will discover something wonderful and fun, and instruments will continue to evolve, like that cool bamboo instrument you have for example.

Each of us will continue to share what we think is wonderful, and overall, the universe of this special kind of music will expand.

[AlanKroeger]

Originally posted by tapmeister
Hi Alan and Ernie,

I think that piece of music is one of the greatest ever composed and I can only hope to do it justice.

Your welcome and you do wonderful musical things with that Stick of yours. Hopefully you now understand that my, earlier, rantings about wanting a short scaled instrument was not about thinking the Stick was not a good instrument. It is just fine as far as I can determine especially in the hands of a marvelous musician.

Originally posted by tapmeister
Until Trakor gets tired of it and kicks me off again.
That to my mind would be a big mistake on his part and a loss of a very great resource, here, for the rest of us.

[boxguitarist]

Greg - thanks for the kvetchinvite, I wholehearetdly disagree with your opinions on BFI and Megatar sounds, and there's two n's in Glenn, no need to waste Tappistry bandwidth responding.

Bye.

[Tom Drinkwater]

When I saw the word BFI it made me think of this huge statue of a native american that we have here in Skowhegan, ME. It's unofficial name that everyone calls it is BFI. I know, it's horrible.
About the intonation system though, there are differences in the way we distinguish one pitch from another, so I read. I have decent relative pitch like a lot of people do. I can tell if something is not intune with itself like a poorly intonated instrument. Then some people have perfect pitch which is way different. I would think that having perfect pitch would be a handicap for a string player of any kind because we are always out of tune a little bit. I read an article from Steve Vai, who has perfect pitch by the way, and he basically describes the system as being equally out of tune with itself all over the neck therefore being more intune sounding than none BFI (hehehe) guitars. I have never talked with Mr. Feiten so I don't know first hand what the story is. I know that my Megatar sounds great all over the fretboard. Now if Buzz can devise a system for playing in key he may be on to something. Oh yeah, the Strumstick and most harps do that.

[arsacane]

AFAIK the Feinten intonation system has 2 parts,
- A special nut
- The tuning itself which is a few cents up or down depending on the string.

I don't see how the nut may influence the sound if you don't play open notes or if you have a zero fret. Maybe I'm missing something here but I cannot find a physical explanation.

Now the second part is easy to understand and it's not about the 'objective' nature of the sound but on our subjective perception of the sound and 'harmony' and I accept that it will make a difference to some people.

My question is; Did someone tried to use the tuning part of the BFTS (those few 10ths of cents off from the 'perfect' tuning) on a standard instrument (v.g. without the special nut)?
You can find a description of the offsets in the Feinten patents (look in www.google.com/patents) and if you have a tuner that is precise enough it should be easy to do. The other possibility is to use a specific tuner from the BFTS; I believe that Korg has a model with this feature.

My poor physics background tells me that the difference is in the offsets of the tuning and not the nut, so provided that you don't play open strings (the case of 90% of the tappers) you could use the BFTS in ANY instrument (but of course you should pay the royalties to Buzz Feinten since he has a patent on this).

Regards, Daniel

[lactose]

From my perspective, this forum could loosen up a little. I am starting to get nervous about posting with the on-topic police around so much.

Also, I think it is pretty awesome that Traktor runs (and pays for I presume) this board, and continues to allow those that disagree with him a voice. He takes quite a beating here and I have never seen him respond maliciously. Hats off to Traktor. I have participated on other forums where the owners were pretty quick to shut down people they did not agree with.

I am making a effort to ignore the innuendos and jibes I see occurring in other threads, and there seem to be a lot lately. I would like to keep this place friendly and informative, and I think the majority of people on here are with me.

[tapmeister]

Originally posted by lactose
From my perspective, this forum could loosen up a little. I am starting to get nervous about posting with the on-topic police around so much.

Also, I think it is pretty awesome that Traktor runs (and pays for I presume) this board, and continues to allow those that disagree with him a voice. He takes quite a beating here and I have never seen him respond maliciously. Hats off to Traktor. I have participated on other forums where the owners were pretty quick to shut down people they did not agree with.

I am making a effort to ignore the innuendos and jibes I see occurring in other threads, and there seem to be a lot lately. I would like to keep this place friendly and informative, and I think the majority of people on here are with me.
Hi Ray,

I take your point. And you are right that Traktor is always very measured in his responses. Let's hope he'll curb his urge to get off the first shot from now on.

Originally posted by traktor
Or ... could it be that some tapping instruments, especially those perhaps of the past ... don't actually play in tune very well?

and then there's this whole thread:
http://www.tappistry.org/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1402

So I respond where I feel like I need to. Traktor's been writing about these things long enough. He knows what he's doing. Do I take the bait too often. Maybe.

He created this forum in part so that he could have an audience for his business.

I appreciate that competition means going after the big guy. I get that. There are positive ways to advertise and negative ways, too.

[tapmeister]

Originally posted by arsacane
AFAIK the Feinten intonation system has 2 parts,
- A special nut
- The tuning itself which is a few cents up or down depending on the string.

I don't see how the nut may influence the sound if you don't play open notes or if you have a zero fret. Maybe I'm missing something here but I cannot find a physical explanation.

Now the second part is easy to understand and it's not about the 'objective' nature of the sound but on our subjective perception of the sound and 'harmony' and I accept that it will make a difference to some people.

My question is; Did someone tried to use the tuning part of the BFTS (those few 10ths of cents off from the 'perfect' tuning) on a standard instrument (v.g. without the special nut)?
You can find a description of the offsets in the Feinten patents (look in www.google.com/patents) and if you have a tuner that is precise enough it should be easy to do. The other possibility is to use a specific tuner from the BFTS; I believe that Korg has a model with this feature.

My poor physics background tells me that the difference is in the offsets of the tuning and not the nut, so provided that you don't play open strings (the case of 90% of the tappers) you could use the BFTS in ANY instrument (but of course you should pay the royalties to Buzz Feinten since he has a patent on this).

Regards, Daniel
Hi Daniel,

You can find a balance of comments about the system here, including one from a tapper:

http://www.epinions.com/content_1397268612/show_~allcom

[traktor]

Originally posted by lactose
From my perspective, this forum could loosen up a little. I am starting to get nervous about posting with the on-topic police around so much.Hello, lactose,

You're probably right. We've gotten a bit skittish about hi-jacking, but this is from the past, and seems to be quite a bit better lately. (With the possible exception of me last week, though I didn't quite realize it at the time.)

Also, I think it is pretty awesome that Traktor runs (and pays for I presume) this board, and continues to allow those that disagree with him a voice. He takes quite a beating here and I have never seen him respond maliciously. Hats off to Traktor. I have participated on other forums where the owners were pretty quick to shut down people they did not agree with.Well, I thank you for your kind words, and yes, that is what I *attempt* to do. But, all too often, I fail, or get caught up in it. However, it's beginning to appear that this is something at which we are all improving over time.

I am making a effort to ignore the innuendos and jibes I see occurring in other threads, and there seem to be a lot lately. I would like to keep this place friendly and informative, and I think the majority of people on here are with me. That's the best way to approach it. The trick, for me at least, is to not blow el stack in reaction.

:D