Weak Sounding High Strings

[TheEclectic]

Am I the only one that has issues with weak sounding high strings (highest pitched strings)? Perhaps it is my approach, which is more like a piano where I play melody on the upper strings and chords and arpeggios in the bass.

It is driving me crazy and makes it hard for me to use the natural Megatar sound. This gives a whole new meaning to Francis McBeth’s “Sound Pyramid”

I just got my new, used MaxTapper Dual Megatar. Now I have two – a midi’ed TrueTapper Dragon and a this Maxtapper. Curiously, they were both made June 2000 and the serial numbers are exactly 80 apart.

I went midi with my TrueTapper because I could not get the upper two strings to sound at the same volume as the other strings. I went with the Ghost Hexpander series and added the Acoustophinic preamps in hopes of getting a balanced sound from the piezos. Nope. Still had those weak sounding top strings.

I was hoping that the Bartolini’s in the MaxTapper would do the trick. Nope. Still has those weak sounding top strings.

Even if I hammer the strings with all my might on the top strings I do not get volume that is matched with the other strings. It is absolutely driving me crazy.

With the midi I can even out each string individually and am able to get a balanced sound when using the VG-88. The difference is amazing.

Looks like I am going to have go midi on the MaxTapper. However, I am going to use the GK-3 instead of Ghost because the piezos telegraph the thud from the fingers when tapping. If it works then I will move to installing two GK-3 internal kits.

Anyway, just wondering if I am alone in this frustration.

[GaryOpenhill]

Hm...i had that problem with the krappy, when i used the passive select emgs on it. Switched to active 85's/707's and that probmel was gone.
On the megatar i use to have the twogold type. Those are very cool, since they sounds really good and have adjustable polepieces. So becuase of that, the balance was not a problem.
Now i have 85's and 707's on the megatar too, and there is no problem whatsoever with the balance between the low and the high strings. They are even soldered in mono, because i like it simple, both sides going trough one channel, and it still works out great. I do keep the one side of the pickups closer to the strings than under the low strings.

But will it help to adjust the one side of the pickup way up under the thin strings and keep the other down? You probably already tried that. I guess thats something that works better on passive pickups. Also i have to assume that the pickups are mounted correctly under the strings. Under the 8 string side of the krappy, the lighets string was on the edge of the metal inside the pickup, not the pickup itself, but the magnetic thing inside. I measured it according to the specs. on their site. Thats the main reason why i switched to 707 on that side, because they cover all those the strings better.

[traktor]

Without seeing and hearing an instrument, of course I cannot diagnose the specific issue of an instrument (any instrument) and its action, through your specific rig, here are some thoughts --

(1) First, it is a fact that little tiny strings wiggling in a magnetic field create a smaller signal than great big 'ol strings wiggling in a magnetic field. The mass of tiny strings is smaller and so it disrupts/alters the magnetic field less. Also the swinging of a big string is somewhat larger than a smaller string, I think, so its wiggling is both further and more mass.

(2) So the first line of approach on the instrument is to see if you can get the magnetic field to be closer to the small string, because as the magnetic field grows closer, within certain boundaries, the magnetic field reacts to the wiggling string more.

The general way you do this is either to (a) raise pole pieces under tiny strings, if you have pickups like the gold-case on the Dragon instruments, or if you have pickups like on the Stick, or (b) if you have rail or solid pickups then you adjust the mount screws so that the end of the pickup under small strings is closer to the string.

How close?

One good way to do it is to bring the pickup high until the string strikes it when playing at fret 25. Then back it off. Now when the string is very close, the magnets will pull on the string, and it will have a slight distorted sound. (Depending on your rig, this may be subtle.) Back the pickup away until the distorted sound just diminishes.

The other side of this coin is to move the other side of the pickup *away* from the other, fatter strings. Because it's the difference that your ears hear.

In the shop when prepping instruments to go out, we test the relative loudness of melody strings at fret 13-14, and the relative loudness of bass strings at fret 3-4, as a good general overall test.

(3) The other part of the equation is -- what are you playing the instrument into? If you run it into a bass amp, the nature of a bass amp is to be very kind to bass strings, but it will absolutely eat up your highs, and the tiny strings have very little sound other than highs.

Likewise the tone control, if your instrument has one, if it's rolled off will kill more sound on your highest strings.

And likewise on any amp, your EQ settings probably create a larger difference in what frequencies come out. In our shop when we set up instruments, we use an unusually flat-response P.A. type amp (Barbetta) with no boosts nor cuts in the EQ.

And likewise, some effects (even when not labled EQ) change EQ in order to accomplish their effect. Phasers and chorusers can cause phase cancellation, and some distortion effects boost mids (at the expense of highs).

Try carrying your instrument into Guitar Center and try other amps. You may be trying to fix the wrong thing.

One of my favorite sounds is a 'jazz guitar.' But it's also a fact that this distinctive sound is created by rolling off highs, and so fingers have to be lighter on big strings, and heavier on little strings.

(4) The action of strings does absolutely have an effect on relative loudness. If you have a relatively low action, and you have the gain up, usually a good balance is available.

Sometimes overlooked is that, if you have a high action, then you have to hit all strings hard, and this gives you very little control over dynamics. With a nice low action, and the gain turned up a little higher than seems reasonable, then you can play lightly, and your fingers will have far more control over how loud the strings sound.

Although tiny strings absolutely make less sound than fat strings, and that continues to be true for any guitar or bass, all these other things will affect the volume.

I hope some of these ideas prove useful for you.

[secondfiddle]

I had a similar problem with my Box guitar, I found that string gauge helps with this problem, that a lighter gauge string will ring more and have the same volume as the rest of the strings. I switched from 10 gauge to 9 gauge on my high E string and the differance was very noticable.

[warrplayer]

I am having a custom pickup made right now for my Raptor to handle this very problem. Things got really bad when I switched my tuning to dual inverted fifths. (not mirrored. Just like two bass sides of a Stick sitting on one neck) Smack in the middle of my neck I have the highest string right next to the lowest string. On the Raptor the problem was compounded by the fact that it has two pickups placed end to end so the high string is basically sitting right in the middle of the two pickups. The new pickup will have two adjustable pole pieces under each string. Hopefully that will allow for finer adjustability than just angling the entire pickup. I play rock so I am not adverse to also using gobs of compression to help even out the strings.

[K Rex]

Buy a Phalanx.

No problems... the highs scream... the lows shake the earth.

Never had to adjust a thing. Go figure.

Kev

[traktor]

That does bring up a good point.

One of the benefits of using active-circuit preamps is that the frequencies most lost in the cable, on the way from the (passive) guitar pickup to the amp ... are the highs.

And that brings up another idea that I'd not thought of.

Anyone playing a normal instrument with passive pickups who loses some highs ... try a different cable, preferably by a different manufacturer or of a different length. Will it help? Don't know, but that is another place that highs can get lost.

[TheEclectic]

Thanks for the replies. Nice to know that I am not the only one and that it is not limited to Megatars.

Traktor,

I hope that my post is not taken as a slander to Megatar, it is just that both tap instruments I own are Megatars (that should be a compliment). I do appreciate the detailed posts and I feel sure that it will be of benefit to others as well.

Also, keep in mind that both of my Megatars are about 8 years old. I feel certain that advancements have been made in those 8 years.

From going thru the Megatar archives, my Megatars may have been made before you came on board. I noticed that the MaxTapper was being introduced in your November 2000 newsletter - maybe mine is one of the first MaxTappers?

My amp is a keyboard amp, Roland KC 550 to be precise. However, I do not think that it is just the amp (I also have a Fender Deluxe, but seldom use it for the Megatar). I also had this problem when I went to my bass lesson - the treble issue was noticeable thru his keyboard amp as well.

My instructor, who also plays and studies with the same luthier with whom I have studied, suggested oversize pickups with bar magnets instead of poles. I doubt that I will do this.

Why? Because I am going to go midi in the future. I did not realize it, but much of what I do in terms of voicing benefits from having different tones for the bass and treble notes - especially for notes in the same octave. When playing the MaxTapper some of the definition between parts started to become blurred. Funny how one learns about ones self.

--

On another note :rolleyes: , check out the partial picture of my instructors 6 string fanned-fret bass at the bottom of this page:
http://www.lehtelaguitarcraft.com/index2.htm

[Jim_D]

I use a little pre-amp kit that I made up for the melody pickup on my megatar. It adds really nice glassy brightness which I find helps on the high notes on those thin strings. It's like having a second pickup on there, closer to the bridge, but the thicker melody strings don't lose their fruity tone.

Here's a link to it - http://www.quasarelectronics.com/1091.htm

I built it into a box so that I can use it with any guitar, and had it long before I got the meg, but it really suits it for what I want to hear from the instrument without physically altering it.

I also like to have a dab of compression on there too - helps even things out but I know that sound is not for everyone.

You may well find that the height adjustment on the pickups will sort things out for you too - it's very true that the big strings give out a lot of juice and getting even output on any magnetically enabled instrument is a very subjective thing, hence all the adjustable polepieces, staggered magnets and other height adjustment tweaks that are available for guitar pickups.

[lactose]

Raising pickups + using compression solved this for me.