New York Seminar

[SteveA]

In case it's not known here, there will be a New York (Staten Island) Seminar April 28-29. Greg H and myself will be the instructors. Info at:
http://www.sticknyc.com/
Steve Adelson

[RocknDrTom]

Hi Steve,
Is this seminar limited to purely the Stick, or could one use an instrument made elsewhere?

This might be the incentive I need to finish building mine.

[jamsire]

Originally posted by SteveA
In case it's not known here, there will be a New York (Staten Island) Seminar April 28-29. Greg H and myself will be the instructors. Info at:
http://www.sticknyc.com/
Steve Adelson

STEVE!!!!!!!!

I'm totally down!!

DAMN!!!!!!

I'm down!

[SteveA]

Is this seminar limited to purely the Stick, or could one use an instrument made elsewhere?

Hi Tom. It's best to ask the organizer at the website. I'm just teaching.
Steve

[SteveA]

Rebuttal dude. Don't make remarks that have no basis. SE doesn't set policy. And the nastiness of your tone is uncalled for.
Unbelievable
SA

[SteveA]

<<<SA surely knew this, SE mandated Stick only many moons ago, what else can be said ?????>>

Again dude. SA did not not know this and again not SE mandated. You speak strictly out of some stupid ass attitude from your past.
Keep it!
SA

[rjgoos]

Unfortunately, all of us harbor (to varying degrees), stupid *ss attitudes from the past. We need to let by-gones be by-gones, or at least try.

If the organizers of the meeting want it to be Stick-only, hey, it's their seminar.


Jay

[traktor]

A reminder gentlemen of our posting policies (http://www.tappistry.org/aboutus/posting.php). The relevant sections are --

Respect: Please show respect for your fellow musicians in the forums. Feel free to post any disagreement; but please show politeness, and it helps to present your reasoning.

Flaming: Flaming is unpleasant, and interferes with the flow of discussion. As a guideline, try to say nothing that you would not say to the person face to face, in front of both of your mothers.

Flame-Baiting: Please avoid name-calling or attaching derogatory labels, which generates needless flames from others.

No Profanity: Women and children may be present.

Thank you for remembering, and for honoring your fellow musicians, despite differences of opinion.

[tapredux]

Originally posted by boxguitarist
Just received a response from Greg, the LI Stick seminar is indeed Stick only, SA surely knew this, SE mandated Stick only many moons ago, what else can be said ?????

Hi folks,

I have avoided subscribing and responding to the occasional anti-Stick barb I see on this forum, some of them by people who are supposed to be moderators (jamsire).

I'd like to include the entirety of my email this morning to Glenn on the subject. He asked me if the seminar was open to other instruments. I always assume the fact that it's called a "Stick seminar" and not a "tapping seminar" should suffice.

Even though Glenn has written some pretty lousy things about The Stick here, I felt like I should be straightforward and respectful and respond to his question.

I've received a couple of other inquiries from Steve's announcement to this forum about the question, so hopefully this should provide a clear enough explanation of why I only teach Stick seminars. The decison is mine, not SE's or Steve's.

I also reserve the right to not teach people who go out of there way to make snarky coments about The Stick, even if they own a Stick. To me that is not the way someone who's seriously interested in learning to play one behaves.

So here's my email to Glenn Drakely, who now goes by "boxguitarist," but used to post under his name, which was actually copied from my email to TomA who also wrote me about attending:

That's it for me. I'll be removing my membership once this discussion is over.

Happy Tapping,
Greg

-----------------

Forwarded message:

In a message dated 3/3/07 9:22:23 AM, Stickist writes:

In a message dated 3/3/07 8:57:47 AM, drakeley@monmouth.com writes:

G,

Limited to Sticks only ??


G.

----------------------------------------

Yes, Sticks only.

Here's a copy of the message I sent to TomA:

------------------------------------------------------

Hi Tom,

I'll try to explain things in as clear a way as possible.

The seminar is Stick-only for ergonomic and setup reasons. Emmett's design puts the instrument in a certain relationship with the body that facilitates the way I teach the method. Other instruments do not.

There are tapping teachers who don't have an opinion on this, but my teaching is so intensely tied to ergonomics that I don't feel comfortable trying to teach on other instruments. I have tried it in the past, and was frustrated by the lack of similarity in hand angles, especially regarding the left hand. I've taught several students privately and even a few at seminars who had other instruments, some home-made, some manufactured. It was always the same experience for me.

An optimum instrument setup is very important. Sticks are designed so that the action is very low and they are easy to tap. I have no experience with setting up other builder's instruments, so if your action wasn't low enough, you would have a hard time with the lessons. My experience with home-made instruments is that they all suffer from high action. Basically, if I can't guarantee myself that I can teach you effectively, I don't want to take your money and potentially waste both of our time.

So several years ago I made a decision only to teach on Emmett's instruments, and I've found I can concentrate my energies very effectively without having to constantly re-negotiate ergonomic differences. In a group class setting I can give the best instruction when we are all working from the same perspective.

I'm not trying to pass judgement on other instruments. To each his own. But as a teacher, I only feel qualified to give effective instruction on Emmett's. I don't believe in trying to teach what I don't really know.

I hope you understand. I wish you good luck with your instrument. Maybe someday I will figure out how to translate my understanding of playing The Stick successfully to instruments with different ergonomic properties.

Happy Tapping,
Greg

[tapredux]

Hi Traktor,

I'm responding to the email I received from you yesterday here so that everyone will indeed know it's really me.

So how does one become a non-member of this forum after joining? Is it possible, or are we all "members for life" by default? That's one thing about these kinds of forums that I've never understood.

Happy Tapping,
greg howard

http://www.greghoward.com
http://www.myspace.com/gregplaysthestick
http://members.aol.com/tapredux

------------------------------------


Hello, Greg,

I was a little surprised to see you signing up for Tappistry.Org,
but I have activated your membership, and you should now be able to
post. (The automatic email-validation thing is no longer automatic,
because we get lots of robots trying to sign up to post spammy crap
about drugs and body parts and such.)

I'm sure you know this, but I merely remind you to take a look
the forum's posting policies here, just in case you hadn't seen them --

http://www.tappistry.org/aboutus/posting.php

I confess that I also am sending this email to make sure it's
really you signing up. That is, to make sure that some jerk is not
impersonating you, for some bogus reason. To reassure me that it really
is you signing up, would you please be so kind as to reply me that you
got this email? As I know that you have the email tapredux@aol.com, when
I see your reply then I'll know I'm not abetting somebody else posting
in your name.

I hope that you find Tappistry.Org useful, and welcome you.

-- Traktor, site engineer for Tappistry.Org

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:01:02 -0800
From: Traktor Topaz <tappers@megatar.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tapredux@aol.com
Subject: Hello, Greg, from Traktor -- regarding Tappistry.Org

[traktor]

Hello, Greg,

Thanks for your informative post.

Although I'm the site engineer for Tappistry.Org, so far I know of no way to remove an account from the forum and leaving posts made by that member intact. And this thread will make much less sense without your post, so I would prefer to let your post stand here.

There is no particular downside to your account being available for your use in the future. And specifically (this is my own opinion only) I see no particular reason not to announce future seminars or such events, whether they are Stick-only or open to all. Many people here play Stick; I'm sure they'd like to know about seminars that could benefit them. As you know, all tappers of any persuasion are welcome here. And anything that spreads the 'gospel' (good news) about this fun way to play music seems like a good thing.

I reply here because you asked here. However, since this bit of discussion is off-topic, I request that anything else be sent to me privately. You can use the 'private message' from your user controls here, and of course my email address is common knowledge, posted on the megatar site.

Thanks again for your informative post. Good luck with the Long Island Seminar. Your seminars always get rave reviews, and I'm sure this one will be no exception.

[K Rex]

Hello all,

My personality is not such that I can stay out of this discussion. Here's my two cents:

I am an ex-Stick owner. Not because I think the instrument is not relevant or has any bad properties or whatever. I was offered a trade for an instrument which was more valuable and appealed to my "ergonomic requirements" as a bass player. There are indeed a few folks on this forum who speak jokingly about the stick. There are a few who have also made disparaging comments about the megatar, Warr, Solene, etc. I think the overall attitude regarding the stick is a byproduct of Emmet's tenacity regarding trademarks, occasional "chiming in" when others attempt to enter the market, etc. I could be wrong.

However, I think this entire affair is kind of silly. Yes, Drakely made a comment which was baseless and, yes, Mr. Adelson responded with vitriol. Traktor, ever the clear-minded individual that he is, reminded us all about the Tappistry policies.

I agree with Traktor 99% of the time on this forum. His behavior and protocol is to be commended. If anyone on this forum has any experience with Stick Enterprises, he has. Still he is able to comport himself as a gentleman.

1) All should read the policies of Tappistry.org.

2) All should follow the policies of Tappistry.org

3) There is no reason for any grown man to become offensive or offended when speaking about such a joyful subject as making music, including Greg Howard.

4) This is a forum for all people interested in tapping instruments, whether it is Stick, Warr, Megatar, whatever. I believe RJGoos quite adamantly prefers the Stick.

5) There is no reason to withdraw from this forum at all, other than out of spite. We welcome Mr. Howard and wish that he would become more involved in Tappistry, as he is quite an accomplished tapper and an authority on the subject.

6) Traktor is the man.

K Rex

[K Rex]

Incidentally, I believe Jamsire owns more than one Stick and has given his over to the school. I don't believe he would have done that if he didn't believe the Stick was a fine instrument. I believe most of us were once Stick players before the market expanded, as it should have.

There is absolutely no reason to be sensitive about cheeky comments made by any individual. The owners of the most successful tapping-instrument business ever should be above that.

K Rex

[jamsire]

Originally posted by tapredux
Hi folks,

I have avoided subscribing and responding to the occasional anti-Stick barb I see on this forum, some of them by people who are supposed to be moderators (jamsire).

Happy Tapping,
Greg

Ok - this kills me.

1. I have posted youtube video links that show amazing stick players that need parking lot beat downs - period. And I love them!

2. Greg, I have come out in NY to see you - because you are an awesome musician who plays music on a Stick. Without fail, some of the best playing I've heard live.

3. If you read my response - above in this thread - I clearly say to Steve that I am down for seminar (meaning I want to go badly).

4. My Sticks are not in use at the moment. Why? Because I can't justify waiting months for repair and TLC from Stick Enterprises. I called there to see what the time frame for repair and TLC and the girl on the phone said it would be a while - more 6-10 months - for a repair. Doesn't make sense to me.

I love all things Touchstyle. My least favorite style is on a 6-string, though I have seen some pretty good examples/ performances. I want to go this seminar. I was thinking of just taking the sticks out of their case and getting new strings just for the event.

I love my Sticks - remember, I was the FIRST STICK PLAYER to ever be featured in the Guitar Player Spotlight Column (Oct. 1987). But I love my Meggy's as well. And that's just the way things are. Greg, I constantly go to your site to see what you are doing, as well as other Stick player sites. My search on youtube is always "chapman stick."

This one you got wrong. Ernie Jackson loves the instrument that was part of getting him famous in the guitar community, but it's not what defines me, and since I can play it and have recorded with it, I can talk. I will see you at the seminar - which I know will be a killer event for Staten Island - and ME!

Groove on!:cool:

[K Rex]

I live in VA, and used to go see Greg Howard as well... in Charlottsville and Richmond. Fantastic playing. I spent good money on a new stick back in '93 and played it for 12 years before I was offered a $3200.00 Warr Phalanx for my $1200.00 Stick (which is what I paid in '93) on this forum. I originally wanted an NS, and put my name on a waiting list. I was prepared to shell out half up front. I was prepared to wait 6 months for my NS to be built. Yuta told me I would be contacted before the production run began so I could pay.

I never heard from her. I subsequently learned that many others had already paid, and had waited unacceptable periods of time before receiving their instruments. All the while I was reading heated exchanges between unsatisfied Stick players, soon-to-be Stick players and representatives of SE.

I received my Warr and forgot the entire affair. Then I began longing for my Stick, which I loved. I tried to trade my Warr for an NS. I've spoken recently about the virtues of the Stick's tone with dedicated players like Mr. Martino. I even borrowed my friend's old graphite model, which I am currently using for a recording project.

The only negative thing that I can find to say about the Stick is that their representatives seem bent on driving a wedge between themselves and the rest of the "tapping community". That others have entered the market with fantastic and increasingly affordable products has not seemed to diminish the demand for SE's product; last I heard, there is a HUGE wait for any sort of new Stick.

The tone of the Stick stands on its own as being unique among tapping instruments. I simply don't understand what the fuss is all about when some guy makes a comment about "they look wimpy" (I insinuated that myself not even two weeks ago, and remember, I played one exclusively for 12 years) or "they don't stay in tune" or whatever.

It seems as if SE has a positive knack for shooting itself in the foot. What on Earth would compel their employee/sponsor/spokesman/press guy/whatever to register on a site that promotes the use of their instrument (believe it or not, many of us on this site have bought or plan to buy a Stick and talk about it in a positive light), drop names (as if Jamsire weren't a Stick owner and fan of Stick players), then announce his plans to terminate his membership immediately? I am not amused. It would seem logical for the employee/sponsor/spokesman/press guy/whatever to embrace this site and be an active member in the hope that SE could win customers. Then again, SE is apparently not hurting for customers.

I do know that every time I hear an interjection from SE in the "tapping world", it is in the form of a negative comment or threat of litigation to a burgeoning instrument maker. Maybe I'm not qualified to say anything further, but SE should focus on wooing the folks in our tiny (but expanding) niche. As this site is one of a precious few of its kind, wouldn't it make more sense to do so rather than totally alienating people like me?

Just a thought, SE.

K Rex

[jamsire]

Originally posted by K Rex

Just a thought, SE.

K Rex

Indeed.

And not to add flames to the fire, do you recall the period when anyone famous or semi-famous manufactured/ played a tapping instrument that was other than a Stick, was sued by SE?

I can't remember another touchstyle manufacturer suing another touchstyle manufacturer because they built a similar instrument that other people preferred to play. One of my favorite players in NJ (I won't drop names) was named in the suit for switching to a Warr guitar!! This was the last thing he needed in his life - especially financially.

Just two weeks ago, I posted a thread about getting the Emmett Chapman "Hands Across the Board" video again and how much I loved it. A while back I posted a comment about the awesome 3 video Stick Lessons by Bob Culbertson I bought on eBay - and how amazing it was.

I dunno - I just want to go to the seminar because I love the playing style - but I hate the politics. Hopefully, I can get permission by Greg to get the local cable station to film the concert as part of my show. I think everyone would benefit (though not financially).

Again, Groove on!

[tapredux]

Ernie,

All your protestations about your wonderful Stick history to the contrary, I'm talking about the present, not the past. Let me take you back to Feb 12th, 2007:

Originally posted by jamsire
Play my Meggy's "Crossed" - technique carry over from the Stick-in-the-mud days.

That's a put-down. You can be honest and cop to it, or you can make excuses. What kind of person are you? Which will it be?

Several times in the past three months, "bah humstick," etc...

For whatever reason some of you guys have these feelings, you seem to need a place where you can go to vent your anti-Stick and anti-Stick Enterprises feelings, and that place is seems to be here. You need somewhere where you can go and talk "touchstyle." I'd rather give you the space you need and hope you can eventually work out your issues.

That's why I haven't joined this forum until now, and why I probably won't participate after this thread is over. You guys need this place more than I do.

I've got two great online communities full of people who actually want to talk about making music and want to become better Stick players: stickist.com and stickwire. There's about 4 times as much activity on stickist.com alone as on this forum, so it's enough for me to keep up with. I know that people who are seriously interested in The Stick and in the music of Stick players will go there, too, so I don't have to be here to reach them.

Just doing a cursory search, this thread is the first time you, Ernie, have mentioned my name on this forum in over 4 years. I don't expect you to, because there are dozens of other active professional Stick players that you guys just never talk about, either. There's a huge world of tapping music happening, and most of it is being done by Stick players.

If you guys have a goal of promoting the "alternative" to that, that's fine, too, but to pretend to be about "all tapping music," and then just ignore the majority of activity in the field isn't really being honest with yourselves, or with the people you want to come hang out with you.

I think you actually have a love/hate relationship with The Stick. Maybe you should take yourself out to the parking lot and work out some of your issues, then we can talk.

I've dedicated my entire adult life to The Stick. My main interest these days is in teaching people how to make music as best as I can on the instrument I know how to play. Down the road, if I'm teaching another seminar, and you want to come with civility and respect in your heart for the people and instrument I love, and with Stick in hand, then you will be welcome. For now, until you lose that baggage, I'm not interested.

I just read your reference to the lawsuit. No doubt Traktor is happy to see you mention it. It's his ace in the whole. He knows Emmett's an honorable guy and wouldn't publish a rebuttal because he'd have to involve the names of others who have also honored the settlement. It's been settled, all of the parties involved have moved on with their lives but Traktor. He keeps us all clung to the misery by continuing to post his site. You know one side of the story, I know the other. I suggest that the real tragedy of your friend's life is who he decided to get involved with, not what it led to..

It's old news. I've moved on, why can't you?

Happy Tapping,
Greg
http://www.greghoward.com
http://www.myspace.com/gregplaysthestick
http://members.aol.com/tapredux

Originally posted by jamsire
Ok - this kills me.

1. I have posted youtube video links that show amazing stick players that need parking lot beat downs - period. And I love them!

2. Greg, I have come out in NY to see you - because you are an awesome musician who plays music on a Stick. Without fail, some of the best playing I've heard live.

3. If you read my response - above in this thread - I clearly say to Steve that I am down for seminar (meaning I want to go badly).

4. My Sticks are not in use at the moment. Why? Because I can't justify waiting months for repair and TLC from Stick Enterprises. I called there to see what the time frame for repair and TLC and the girl on the phone said it would be a while - more 6-10 months - for a repair. Doesn't make sense to me.

I love all things Touchstyle. My least favorite style is on a 6-string, though I have seen some pretty good examples/ performances. I want to go this seminar. I was thinking of just taking the sticks out of their case and getting new strings just for the event.

I love my Sticks - remember, I was the FIRST STICK PLAYER to ever be featured in the Guitar Player Spotlight Column (Oct. 1987). But I love my Meggy's as well. And that's just the way things are. Greg, I constantly go to your site to see what you are doing, as well as other Stick player sites. My search on youtube is always "chapman stick."

This one you got wrong. Ernie Jackson loves the instrument that was part of getting him famous in the guitar community, but it's not what defines me, and since I can play it and have recorded with it, I can talk. I will see you at the seminar - which I know will be a killer event for Staten Island - and ME!

Groove on!:cool:

[rjgoos]

Let the person who has never uttered a snarky comment on an internet forum cast the first stone. I think that most of us have succumbed to the temptation to take the cheap shot from time to time. And, of course, hard feelings result.


Jay

[RocknDrTom]

I think I innocently started this.

I did present my question, because being new to this style of playing, I had no idea if I could use an instrument I'm making.

I recieved a very thoughtful, and well-written response from Greg (which he publically posted above). I was honored that he took the time to respond directly. For that, I have the utmost respect, and I fully understand his position on this seminar.

As a musician, I've been infatuated with all instruments. there's something magical about sound, and it doesn't matter to me who makes a particular instrument. As long as it's used to make music and/or express one's self. That's it's purpose, and that's all that matters in the long run.

Okay, I'm stepping off the soap box.

Greg, if you are reading this, thank you again for taking the time to personally address this - both publically and privately.

[traktor]

Hi, Greg,

While I don't follow all of your post, I would suggest this.

When you have some Stick events or seminars, have somebody come post them here. This forum is another way you can tell the world about your events. And if you think this forum needs more Stick information, well that should be easy to fix.

Post it.

You are invited.

[K Rex]

Greg, I can't help but notice that you avoided a key issue here: there is little reason for you to enter a place which you obviously feel is a forum for people who don't like the Stick, create an account, use a long-time forum member by name to make an example of why you've never signed up, announce that you'll be terminating your account immediately, and then trash the moderator of the site. This is beyond "snarky", Greg. This is uncalled for. The likely reason for it is spite, and there seems to be no evidence to prove otherwise.

As Mr. Goos says, we're all guilty of forum "snarkiness". There is more snarkiness on Stickist.com than you can shake a stick at. Greg, your problem seems to be that there are different preferences on this forum and the people occasionally voice these preferences in a way you don't like. My point is that if you have avoided this site for so long, why stop now? It's much less stressful to remain over there at Stickist, where YOUR preferred instrument reigns supreme. And, as you pointed out, there are many, many more members over there to keep you busy. I simply fail to understand why Jamsire's opinion, along with a select few others (who all own Sticks, incidentally), should arouse your interest in even the smallest way. You had responded to TomA's email and answered his question, so what gives? What was the straw that broke the camel's back?

I suspect that the folks over at SE, including Greg Howard, are guilty of that which Greg levels at Traktor; that they simply cannot move on. Traktor, on the other hand, has never uttered a negative comment about anyone on this forum. Rather, he often reminds us to tone down the "flaming" as is evidenced in this very thread.

There are no "issues", which we must work through, no deep-seated hatred for SE or the Stick, which we have all used as a vehicle to fill Emmett Chapman's bank account. IT IS A FINE INSTRUMENT, and everyone knows what an important role it plays in the development of the touchstyle instrument.

At last, we come to the crux of the matter: Greg, your name has indeed appeared on this forum many times, as have the names of Bob Culbertson (who is THE MAN), Steve Adelson, Emmett Chapman, and many, many others who play the Stick to great effect. Do some research. As far as the majority who leads the tapping movement, I suspect you are correct. SE probably has more customers than the rest of the manufacturers. As a business, it is in their interest to defend exclusive rights over tapping instruments as a whole as Emmett Chapman has tried valiantly, and failed, to do.

Greg, I suggest you do another cursory search on this site. You will see the utmost respect for the Stick, and many people who play it. What you are after is not civility and RESPECT for the Stick, though. What you are after is PREFERENCE for and DEFERENCE to the Stick. Sorry, but this forum doesn't have a sponsor like Stickist does, and you'll find many people voicing their opinions and preferences. As a result of the diversity of these preferences and the tolerance for them on this site, I think we have significantly less BAGGAGE than those who endorse one product and refuse to tolerate those who play instruments with SLIGHTLY different ergonomic properties.

This is a farce. Traktor is undeserving of your very personal attacks, and I suspect he is the ONLY reason you have avoided this site for so long. If I'm wrong, sorry. But personal attacks create those sorts of impressions and you should be more discreet if you don't wish people to have these impressions.

Does Traktor have an ace in the hole? How so? I would never have known, because every time I speak with Traktor, it is about making music and things that are relevant and important. The lawsuit is history, and everyone in the tapping world is aware of it. How can we not be? However, for you to imply that this site is simply Traktor's way of airing out the soiled laundry from the suit is a joke. And your assertion that we are anti-Stick simply because we don't praise their superiority is downright paranoid, especially considering most of us OWN ONE.

I'm not into personalities. I'm into music. I'm man enough to keep playing Stick despite SE and this silly post. I won't let Greg Howard stop me. I'm sure Yuta will still sell me one if I call tomorrow, too. I'll keep the account that I created just yesterday over at Stickist.com, and will adhere to their policy. I expect the same civility there that we expect here (that is, that my membership will not be terminated as a result of my response to Greg Howard's personal attacks on members of this site).

You are welcome here, Greg. But please don't insult my intelligence by insinuating that we are ANTI-STICK when we are, in reality, the people that have helped make SE the company that leads the tapping industry.

I'd like to have you here and move beyond this, like you said. We could all learn a lot by your presence. If you are big enough, great. I suspect you are.

Traktor, if I've broken the rules or offended anyone, you may remove my account.


K Rex

[jamsire]

And I make the first motion to suggest that this thread - is dead.

Apparently, this is no different then the mac v. pc, Fender v. Gibson, etc.

Traktor - thank you for the reminder of being a gentleman.

Greg - let's agree to disagree.

Everyone else - Have you been paying attention to the music on CSI Miami? Awesome!!

Oh yeah - Wendy & Lisa (formerly of Prince) do the music for "Heroes"

[tapredux]

Hi Tom,

You didn't start this, it's been going on a long time. There are many very nice people on this forum, you are one of them. Thanks for your thoughtfulness and understanding. And I really do wish you all the success and luck with your instrument, and Brenda, and all the other folks who are out there building them. And to Adam Fulara, and all the people who are really interested in making music, more power to you. You are very talented.

I think the ultimate benefit would be had by all if someone started a forum for all tapping instruments that was not owned and run by one of the people who makes them.

As long as Traktor's lawsuit web page is still online, I will never believe that he doesn't still have it in for Emmett.

There's only one reason to keep a document like that online, and that is to **** people off and influence their opinion about someone or something they are genuinely interested in. It is spiteful and destructive. But it has a certain marketing value, I suppose. There is a lot on that site that is wrong, misleading, and out of context, but I am not interested in dwelling in the past. Nine years is a long time to carry a grudge, Traktor.

So I came here only to correct some misinformation posted by Drakely and to take one person to task for being a snarky moderator. I've done that, maybe it was a good move, maybe not.

I've said my peace. If you're interested in what's happening in The Stick world, or in my world, you know where to find me.

Peace and happy tapping,
Greg
http://www.greghoward.com
http://www.myspace.com/gregplaysthestick
http://members.aol.com/tapredux



Originally posted by RocknDrTom
I think I innocently started this.

I did present my question, because being new to this style of playing, I had no idea if I could use an instrument I'm making.

I recieved a very thoughtful, and well-written response from Greg (which he publically posted above). I was honored that he took the time to respond directly. For that, I have the utmost respect, and I fully understand his position on this seminar.

As a musician, I've been infatuated with all instruments. there's something magical about sound, and it doesn't matter to me who makes a particular instrument. As long as it's used to make music and/or express one's self. That's it's purpose, and that's all that matters in the long run.

Okay, I'm stepping off the soap box.

Greg, if you are reading this, thank you again for taking the time to personally address this - both publically and privately.

[K Rex]

Probably not. I'm ticked.

I agree with Jamsire. This thread is dead.

Peace to all,

Kev

[rjgoos]

Well, from this day forward, if any of you catch me in a snark, you are authorized to give me a virtual kick in the rear end.

And without question KRex...Bob Culbertson is indeed THE MAN.


Jay

[K Rex]

And Greg Howard, for that matter.

I know talent when I see it.

[tapredux]

Originally posted by K Rex
Maybe I'm not qualified to say anything further, but SE should focus on wooing the folks in our tiny (but expanding) niche. As this site is one of a precious few of its kind, wouldn't it make more sense to do so rather than totally alienating people like me?

Just a thought, SE.

K Rex

Hi K Rex,

It's hard to woo people when there's a guy throwing rotten eggs at your house. He's stinking up the whole neighborhood, and has been for nine years. Now it's odd to me, because he lives here, too. So maybe he likes the smell. There are indeed people who do.

Not only does Traktor keep his sulfrus lawsuit website online, but he also publishes several other "historical" websites about the origins of tapping etc. None of these square with what Emmett and others actually did, so that has an odour all it's own. All of his sites are full of errors. It's historical fiction at best.

The story might be interesting, but the facts have been alterred to suit the story-teller's goals. One of which is clearly that Emmett was wrong to file his suit (I know what actually happened, I saw the prelude, and I don't think Traktor gave him any choice).

And the other is that Emmett's instrument and many of the instruments that followed (Warr, Krappie, Megatar, Biaxe, etc) were inspired somehow by Jimmie Webster and not by Emmett Chapman. I'm not saying that these other people actually agree with Traktor's version of events, I know some do. I think Kevin is a decent fellow, so please don't think I'm trying to put any of this on him. wishing you all the best, Kevin. But there are other folks on this forum who clearly do agree with Traktor's spin, and are willing to propagate it, like Goos.

So I believe the number of people in the neighborhood who like that egg smell might go up. They get a whiff of it and decide to move in. Maybe you don't mind it, but I do.

By bringing up issues of litigation and a lawsuit which you don't really know about, you and Ernie both showed that it's an issue for you. Suing people is considered to be an "evil act" by many in our society, but sometimes it's the only way to defend what you've spent your whole life building against people who want to ter it down. Sometimes courts, attorneys, judges and rules of evidence do the job, sometimes they don't. I'm sure we can all think of examples of criminal and civil suits whose result we agree with and some we disagree with.

I know what Ernie wrote about someone being sued for "changing instruments" isn't true, so maybe you guys should paint the picture for me about what you think actually happened. I'm willing to talk about it in an objective way if you are.

Perhaps a new thread on this forum would do the job.

So here I stand talking with you on the street about the problem in our neighborhood. Are you just going to stand there and complain about the stink? I'm trying to stop the guy from throwing the eggs. Are you going to help me, or are you going to stand there and blame me for it?

Happy Tapping,
greg
http://www.greghoward.com
http://www.myspace.com/gregplaysthestick
http://members.aol.com/tapredux

[jamsire]

Kill this thread.

Greg, the funniest thing about all of this was that I was going to contact you about permission to come down to the performance venue and film the concert for my cable show. I felt it was something great for the instrument, players, etc. For those who gave permission, there would have been an opportunity for copies of the performances in all of the formats for their own use.

I have never been un-wanted anywhere on the very island I live on - until now. Too bad. My intentions on paying $175 was pure and good. I honestly had no clue you were/ are not happy with me - no matter what other good things I say about Stick performers, video products, etc.

Once again - Greg too bad.

[K Rex]

A few points, Greg, before I give up... again.

1) I know more about the case than you think I do, PAL, and it wasn't Traktor, his friends, or any of his sites where I became informed.

2) I know the prelude, too. If you'll go back and read my posts on this thread, you'll see that I've already said Chapman had every right to defend his business. It's just that I don't believe ruining people's lives was the proper thing for him to do. Also, like the judge said, there was no evidence that Chapman lost anywhere near the amount he sought in damages. But who am I? Just some opinionated dork who is happy to own any kind of tapping instrument. My opinion isn't likely to sway you, Traktor, or anyone else on this site. Yours might, as the press guy/whatever of Stick Enterprises, which is part of what makes your venomous soap-box appearance on this forum very difficult for me to understand.

3) WE DON'T REALLY CARE. WE ARE STICK OWNERS. NONE OF US HAVE TRAKTOR'S SITE BOOKMARKED. YOU ARE WRONG. THIS ISN'T AN ISSUE FOR ERNIE OR ME, DESPITE YOUR DESPERATE ATTEMPTS TO MAKE IT ONE. EVEN IF IT WERE, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH? HOW MUCH SLEEP ARE YOU WILLING TO LOSE OVER THIS, GREG?

4) You still seem to lack the ability to grasp my point to you. My point is this: You made it crystal clear that Tappistry.org is NOT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. You made it clear to everyone that Stickist is your neighborhood. Now, if our neighborhood smells like sulfur, why don't you stay in your own neighborhood? If we're all anti-stick rebels, why enter the site? To lend an air of authority to info that has already been posted? If you know the ghetto smells like rotten eggs, why not stay in the suburbs?

5) So far, you have managed to come into our neighborhood, drop one name after the other (Mr. Goos is the latest hapless recipient of your vitriol), trash Traktor ON HIS SITE, tell everyone that you don't need this site, tell us that we CAN'T LET THE ISSUE GO, while patently refusing to let it go yourself, even after you are paid innocent compliments and made an offer to give free press to your event. Perhaps you are afraid Jamsire will film the event and then run home to mangle it in photoshop, giving you a Hitler mustache, dubbing it in German and displaying it for the whole world to see?

6) Maybe you still see Traktor as an enemy, but the folks on this site aren't your enemies. The greatest enemy you have right now is yourself, as you have amply demonstrated contempt for innocent people on this site; that is, Stick owners and potential Stick owners, myself included.

7) Please, please, please, do us all a favor and make this issue go away as the people you have accused have all attempted to do.

K

[K Rex]

P.S. This entire thread smells of sulfur. Maybe Greg should copy/paste it and re-post the entire affair onto Stickist.com, so the innocent folks over there can share in the suffering? Just a thought.

K

[traktor]

Dear Greg,

I'm sure you know how to do your job as Director of Public Relations for Stick Enterprises, and I'm sure you are earnestly doing the best job you know how, and I'm sure you are truthfully expressing your feelings and views on these matter.

However, the agreement made by those who wish to post here is that they will follow the posting policies of Tappistry.Org forums (http://www.tappistry.org/aboutus/posting.php). In case these have been overlooked, the agreement you made includes --

Respect: Please show respect for your fellow musicians in the forums. Feel free to post any disagreement; but please show politeness, and it helps to present your reasoning.

Flaming: Flaming is unpleasant, and interferes with the flow of discussion. As a guideline, try to say nothing that you would not say to the person face to face, in front of both of your mothers.

Flame-Baiting: Please avoid name-calling or attaching derogatory labels, which generates needless flames from others.

No Profanity: Women and children may be present

Also, I might mention that this thread is about the Long Island Stick Seminar, and how that might be useful for tapping musicians who play Stick brand instruments. It would seem like the most useful thing to do would be to tell people why it might be swell to go, and learn, and have the joy of it. That's just my opinion.

But this particular excursion about the evilness of Traktor is off-topic. If you wish, feel free to start a new thread about that rascal. And as long as you discuss the subject with respect for your fellow musicians, without using flames or flame-baiting or profanity, you are welcome to post here. And if it's of interest to anyone, then all can post and have fun.

As always, you are invited to participate here. However, since you agree to the posting policy when you elect to post here, I must respectfully request that you honor the agreement to follow posting policy.

Thank you very much for showing courtesy, if not to me, then to the other tapping musicians here.

[tapredux]

Hi Ernie,

Most people don't think I'm funny, I'm glad you're amused. And honestly you seem like a good-natured fellow, you always have. I think that's why I reacted so badly to your cracks. You have said good things, too, it's true. I misjudged you. I apologize.

I don't want you to feel alienated in your own neighborhood, since that's kind of what this whole thing is about. I appreciate what you say.

If you still want to come to the seminar, okay. Do you have a Stick that's working well enough to use?

Out of respect for the students, though, no video of the seminar please.

I can be wrong. I'll admit that, about you, this time, I was.

To Traktor, if something is unpleasant that you don't agree with, you can call it a flame, but that doesn't make it any less true, and it doesn't change that fact that it needed to be said. If you can point to something specific in my posts that you consider a flame, I would like a reference point. Did you flame me back in December about the Wikipedia, and I wasn't even a member of the forum?

As far as this being Traktor's forum, K Rex, I though it belonged to all tappers. I stand corrected.

Ernie, if you want to email me about this or send a private message you are welcome. I know Steve wil be glad to have you there, and as a local tap-meister I will be, too.

Yeah or ney? I'm looking forward to hearing from you Ernie.

Anyone else who has a Stick who wants to come, here's the seminar website: http://www.sticknyc.com/

Happy Tapping,
greg
http://www.greghoward.com
http://www.myspace.com/gregplaysthestick
http://members.aol.com/tapredux


Originally posted by jamsire
Kill this thread.

Greg, the funniest thing about all of this was that I was going to contact you about permission to come down to the performance venue and film the concert for my cable show. I felt it was something great for the instrument, players, etc. For those who gave permission, there would have been an opportunity for copies of the performances in all of the formats for their own use.

I have never been un-wanted anywhere on the very island I live on - until now. Too bad. My intentions on paying $175 was pure and good. I honestly had no clue you were/ are not happy with me - no matter what other good things I say about Stick performers, video products, etc.

Once again - Greg too bad.

[K Rex]

We're all good natured people here. That's what makes this entire thread an embarrassment to all involved.

I can be wrong. I'll admit that, about you, this time, I was.

That's huge. I'd submit that we could all benefit from reconciliation, as our community truly does not wish to be fragmented into different "camps".

QUOTE]As far as this being Traktor's forum, K Rex, I though it belonged to all tappers. I stand corrected.[/QUOTE]

I believe that was your assertion from the beginning, not mine. If you truly thought this site belonged to all tappers, why not join us as a regular member and ignore those who say smarmy things about the Stick? Personally, I feel like the bass tone of the Stick is unmatched. I also feel like the melody tone of the Warr is unmatched. I entertain all input, and would ignore anyone that stated the Phalanx was too heavy (it is), looked like a surfboard with strings on it (it does), etc. I'd love to see you do the same and be a part of the GREATER tapping community by being a part of this forum. As I said before, we could all benefit from your presence and perhaps some relationships could be healed as a result of folks no longer avoiding or flaming each other.

Just my opinion.

Wish I could bring my "loaner" Stick to the event. I sure could use a lesson in the inverted fifths technique. Have fun.

Peace to all,

Kev

[rpmartino]

I'm getting warm fuzzy feelings with the humility and reconciliation going on here! I sign of real men I say.

In my experience, in any personal contact I've had with anyone of various instrument persuasions... Stick, Warr, Box, Megatar, homemade, etc... they are without fail nice people who genuinely are interested in music. I've had the chance to try a Box and some Warr Guitars, fine instruments with particular strengths that I wouldn't mind owning, if I had ample financial means.

Despite what he claimed about himself, Greg is a funny and fun to hang out with guy, with a good heart. I'm fortunate to live nearby, and his guidance has greatly helped my playing. And he's not trying to demean other instruments when he says he only teaches Stick, I can say with firsthand experience that his methods are inherently tied to the ergonomic design of the Stick, which provides some unique advantages for tapping techniques.

In the spirit of reconciliation and the "non-denominational" approach of Tappistry.org and the desire for peace in the tapping community as a whole, my personal thought is that it would be appropriate for Traktor to remove the lawsuit stuff from his personal site. I don't necessarily agree with the presentation of certain facts in the "Touchstyle history" either but I figure that's a different issue... we are all entitled to what we believe is truth, and can gracefully "agree to disagree". In the end, it's the music that counts, and as more tapping folks make music, play out and record things, I think it will help inspire and draw people to exploring this great way of making music.

I think this is a cool forum and have corresponded with some nice folks here, and hope it continues to be fun and informative place.

[K Rex]

You are a true diplomat, my friend.

If you all lived in VA Beach, the drinks would be on me.

Peace,

Kev

[traktor]

Thank you kindly for your gracious post, Greg.

[tapredux]

Originally posted by K Rex


Wish I could bring my "loaner" Stick to the event. I sure could use a lesson in the inverted fifths technique. Have fun.

Peace to all,

Kev

Hi K Rex,

Thanks for the kind wishes. Maybe things are changing for the better all around.

Just so people don't get confused, I'd like to take this excellent opportunity to point out that the inverted 5ths tuning doesn't require any separate "technique" than any other tuning. Emmett's method is universally applicable to any tuning, though the way the notes lay out on the board is different, the way I teach to move around the board is the same. I teach the "how-to," more than the "what to," which I think is more empowering to the student, especially since little of the hand movement that tapping requires actually translates well from standard guitar and bass techniques.

I've taught several players who play "uncrossed" as well as what some call "crossed" (I prefer the term "open-handed", because I believe it more accurately describes the wonderful sensation of playing that Emmett's taught with his Free Hands method). All fourths, mirrored fourths, crafty tunings, etc., the basic technique is always the same, though each tuning allows certain musical functions that the others do not.

The key difference to my mind is that the "open-handed" tuning allows for easier hand motion (something I actually agree with Traktor about. yeah!)

What's particularly effective about Emmett's Stick design is that it can not only be positioned more vertically than a guitar, but because of the specific way he designed the belthook, the instrument easily leans back toward the left shoulder. This combination radically reduces the amount of left-wrist bending over more conventional instrument positioning, and is made very easy, thanks to the lack of counterweight which a body adds, and which pulls the headstock forward when the neck is raised more upright.

But simply elevating the instrument isn't enough. If the fretboard can't be pulled back closer to the shoulder, then what I teach is much more difficult. That's the main reason I restrict myself to teaching Sticks.

Obviously this isn't the only way The Stick works, just look around and you'll see players who wear it at a much lower angle. They find it works for them in that position best. It just never did for me. And I like to teach what I know best.

Of course, I'm not saying other instruments aren't as good as The Stick. Personal preferences aren't the issue. I'm just trying to explain what I find uniquely successful about Emmett's design. Others may differ. And it is my sincerest wish that everyone who wants to make music finds the instrument that's right for them. I now how great that feels.

Thanks to Rob for his kind post earlier. His playing is one of the best examples of how a mirrored 4ths tuning works very, very well. I'm really happy to have played a role in helping him find it. If you haven't checked out his videos on YouTube, you should. I believe he has the most "views" of almost any tapper. Go Rob!

Happy Tapping,
Greg
http://www.greghoward.com
http://www.myspace.com/gregplaysthestick
http://members.aol.com/tapredux

PS, interested parties can find out more info about Emmett's method, which is the primary mode of paying for the instruments discussed on this forum at:

http://www.stick.com/method
http://www.stick.com/articles/evolution
http://www.emmettchapman.net/music/freehandsmethod.html

[K Rex]

Hello again Greg,

Thanks for the informative post. I think the possibilities of interval playing is what appealed to me when I first bought the stick in '93. Having "dropped" it a few years back, I thought I was beyond hope of reclaiming my ability to play it when I borrowed my friend's old poly model two weeks ago... I was wrong, to an extent. My muscles "remember", for the most part, how to play... I am very rusty, though... I wish I could find my FREE HANDS book. I'm a bassist first and foremost, which is what made the idea of the Phalanx appeal to me. It is an ergonomic monstrosity, making learning very difficult. I've gotten around this, though, and have found my ability on the instrument grow exponentially.

Once reaching out for a touch instrument similar to bass, I now find myself wanting one that will afford me the opportunity to play intervals. Bass reciprocal sounds pretty cool.

Rob's playing is great. He lives pretty close to me (I'm in VA Beach), so I'm hoping I can see his playing in person when I visit Freddysburg (my daughter is going to school there in the fall). I think proximity to other players is what I lack as far as learning goes... A drawback to playing such a unique instrument, I suppose.

As cool as the Phalanx and Stick are, I don't YET feel they are the PERFECT instrument for me. NS, maybe? I spoke with Yuta two days ago about this. Always a possibility...

Thanks for the post. I think your continued involvement is appreciated by all of us.

Kev

[glints-collide]

Hey K,

have you ever tried a 8-string warr? I tested two at the seminar with markus reuter and they are very comfortable and not so heavy. Mark Butler for example
uses it more like a extended bass which sounds more like your approach of playing the instrument.

[jamsire]

Is there anyone nearby me in Staten Island that doesn't have a Stick but wants to go to the seminar with with me???

As some of you know I have two of them, and I am willing to supply a loaner for this event - no cost of course, just be nice with it.

I feel like I'm in college asking someone to share gas for a ride home!

I'm just asking, seems a shame if someone wants to go, but doesn't have a Stick.

Hey Greg, can I supply you some custom blank sheet music paper for the seminar?

Groove on!

[jamsire]

Originally posted by tapredux
The NS/Stick is a really remarkable instrument. For starters it works very well as a dedicated tapping instrument.

Hey Greg.

Yeah ya know, I always dug that instrument. I have a couple of Steinbergers and I knew whatever Emmett and Ned came up with would be killer.

My question is how come only 8 strings? Just very curious about that. And did they decide that tuning to include a "baritone" type range as well?

I will also say here, that I missed MANY opportunities to get a poly Stick. How difficult are they to acquire these days (new or otherwise)?

[rpmartino]

I owned an NS for a few years, I think the 8 string design decision is basically a range limitation, it's got slightly less than the range of a Stick, low B to high Bb (below the high C or D of a regular Stick tuning)... the 34" scale probably doesn't permit a higher fourth without an insanely low gauge string... I'm aware of "extended range basses" that go well past the low B and high Bb of the NS, perhaps the issue is that the strings would be too thick/thin for proper tapping tone?

[RocknDrTom]

I just finished moving out of my house having sold it yesterday,, and now most everything is in storage. I'm hoping to dig out of the piles soon and convince my wife how important it is to attend. I'm living just outside of Philly now, and I may take you up on the "borrowed stick for a ride" offer.
I just have to convince my wife that going to this seminar is more important than finding a place to live. :-)

[PhoBucket]

I hear ya, Tom. I'm trying to paln a wedding and move to Philly within the next month or so. I can only imagine the added stress of living in someone else's home and having a tapping instrument that is 99% complete taunting me.

Still, I'm going to try and make the Saturday night "Stick Night".

[SteveA]

Me too.

Steve A

[jamsire]

Originally posted by PhoBucket
Still, I'm going to try and make the Saturday night "Stick Night".

Tell ya what.

I live 10 minutes from the seminar venue, and 20 minutes from the performance venue.

I can provide a brief respite between sessions for those traveling far. Just a place to chill. If I close on my house by then, then I can accomodate more people.

It would be my pleasure.

[RocknDrTom]

I'm planning on attending this seminar, even though I don't have a stick (not yet, anyway). According to Greg, thanks to the graciousness of another attender who is currently annonymous, I will be able to borrow an extra one for the sessions.

I'm excited, and looking forward to this seminar. Especially, since I'm a complete newbie - never tried or even held one of these instruments. Sothi swill truly be a great learning experience for me.

I've made reservations at the Holiday Inn in South Plainfield. It's a bit farther, but more affordable than the two listed in the link.

[SteveA]

If a basketball game breaks out, Ernie's on my team.
Steve A

[jamsire]

Originally posted by SteveA
If a basketball game breaks out, Ernie's on my team.
Steve A

If a GROOVE breaks out, Steve's on my team.

Then again, what would I do then?

[SteveA]

Grab the rebound and start a fast break?
When MJ used to get into a GROOVE he was unstoppable.
Music is like that. Read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's writings on basketball and jazz.
SA

[jamsire]

Originally posted by SteveA
Read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's writings on basketball and jazz.
SA

I most certainly will!

Right now my latest literary indulgence is Richard Neer's FM: The Rise and Fall of Rock Radio. This is an awesome book the explains why radio sucks now, and how really cool George Harrison was.

[jamsire]

Originally posted by tapredux
Okay, we're now down a man for medical reasons.

Ernie still has an extra Stick he said he would lend to someone if they needed it.


Got my new strings two days ago too!

C'mon!