Bass amp, Keyboard amp or PA?

[TheEclectic]

Looking for some input here....

I already have a tube guitar amp that I like (Fender Deluxe) and I want to add something for the bass output of the Megatar.

I really want to use 2 amps to get stereo seperation between the two outputs.

I am using effects pedals with the Megatar - a Korg AX5G for guitar and an AX5B for bass (just got them - still have not gone thru all the sounds). One day I hope to add MIDI to the Megatar.

The Fender Deluxe is only 30 watts, but since it is tube it is much, much louder than my 100 watt acoustic solid-state amp.

I do not know much about Bass amps, but I was told that most Bass amps do not have tubes. I want to get something that has similar volume as the Fender Deluxe, so I am thinkling at least 100 watts?

I am also wondering if about getting a Keyboard amp or an inexpensive modular PA instaed. The PA would allow me to use microphones (my acoustic amp has mic inputs, so that is not a biggie).

The reason for considering the Keyboard amp and PA is the use of my MIDI guitar equipment and it might sound better when playing orchestra sounds. (Now I get overdriven orchestra, which has its place)

[PhoBucket]

Excellent questions. Yes, tupe amps are generally perceived as louder per watt than solid state amps. I don't know why that is, but have heard this mentioned by many resources.

Keep in mind that bass frequencies need significantly more wattage to match the volume of higher frequencies. Speaker surface area and driver efficiency also have an impact on volume. I played many gigs with a guitarist using a custom 25w tube amp that absolutely screamed. I was using 600w and 2 12 inch speakers to keep up.

Are you planning on playing with a band? Id so, 100 watts will probably not be enough. 300 watts should do you right unless you're in a pretty loud band. 100w is really in the range of at home practice amps for bass, or solo gigs.

I think the keyboard amp is a good and economical idea, but I haven't used on for this purpose myself. I like the carvin keyboard amps for the money. I thought they offered a 300w version, but I don't see it on their site any more.

[RocknDrTom]

After a bit of research, I picked up a Yamaha BBT500H. They are no longer being made, but you can pick them up at Musician's Friend for a decent price while they last. This is a solid state amp designed to emulate other types of amps. It's a good deal for the price.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-BBT500H-500W-Digital-Bass-Amp-Head?sku=480819

[PhoBucket]

Wow, that IS a good deal for the price

[TheEclectic]

Thanks for the input.

Right now I am not playing with anyone, but I am trying to hook up with some work mates and eventually play small venues.

After spending some time at the local Sam Ash at lunch today I have decided to get a keyboard amp. They are made for better tonal range and they also have several channels - all of the bass amps had only one channel. I really need the extra channels for playing synth module(s) with MIDI guitar. (the VG's go thru the guitar amp). It will also allow me to use one amp with the Megatar if I want to travel light.

I can not afford 300 watts and have settled in on either a Hartke KM200 (200 watts 15" speaker & tweeter) or a Roland KC-35 (120 watts 12" Speaker & tweeter).

The Hartke is the front runner, but I need to take the Megatar there to try them both out.

Speaking of Megatar, my friends at Sam Ash are dying for me to bring the Megatar in - they had never heard of them. There are not many tap players and even fewer tap instruments here in Charlotte, NC. :(

I will post when I purchase one. First I need to sell that Regal Tricone...

[TheEclectic]

I purchased an amp yesterday.

I focused on Keyboard Amps as I needed the extra channels. Bass amps typically had only one channel.

I selected the most expensive one under consideration - the Roland KC-550 @ $600. It had by far the best user reviews for both sound and quality.

The Hartke KM-200 was a close second, and was about $50 cheaper. Also under consideration was the Alesis Sumo 300 ($350) and the Behringer Ultratone K3000FX ($300).

Curiously, the cheaper ones had more bells and whistles while the more expensive ones have none - not even reverb. The cheaper ones seemed plagued with QC and customer support problems, so I decided to stay away from them even though they had some desireable features.

When I got it home I plugged the Megatar directly into it and turned it all of the way up. I was not impressed - not nearly the volume for which I was hoping.

I returned the effects pedals I bought, but I do have a Roland VG-88 for midi guitar. While the Megatar is not yet midi equipped, the VG-88 can still be used as a sound processor with a straight guitar signal (although it does not have near the functionality as when using a midi equipped instrument)

The difference is sound was amazing. Much, much louder. I guess that I am going to have to use a sound processor or preamp with this amp in order to get the volume.

The low bass is solid and powerful. It was the first time I really experienced playing those low tones in all of their wonder and glory. Those low notes shook the house and made my ears hurt. :p

So far, I am happy with my purchase. However, time is the real measure of satisfaction.

I will split the Megatar between the Roland (bass side) and the Fender Blues Deluxe (treble side) this weekend. I am really looking forward to that.

[traktor]

Magnetic pickups, no matter how well made, create a tiny signal. The power of the signal comes from a wire (the string) wiggling inside the magnetic field of a coil (the pickup).

Synthesizers and keyboards get their power from a plug in the wall and send out a relatively strong signal.

Guitar amps have inputs which expect both the (small) strength of the magnetic signal and the (high) impedance (similar to resistance) of the cable from the guitar.

Keyboard amps have inputs which (generally) expect the (strong) signal from a keyboard, and to this signal the impedance of the cable from the synth is not such a big deal, and I understand that the impedance from those cables is different, though I confess I do not understand impedance very well.

So many keyboard amps are not prepared to deal with the small signal from a magnetic pickup coming in through the impedance of the cable. Guitar amps are.

Often people want to use keyboard amps because they have wide frequency response and can better handle the wide frequency range of a tapping instrument better than can a single bass amp or guitar amp.

Solution 1 -- Some keyboard amps (like the Barbetta) have very loud volume, very flat frequency response, and have an input section which deals well with either the input from a guitar, a mike, or a synth.

Solution 2 -- Boost the signal from the instrument going into the cable. For example, we can turn any Bartolini-equipped instrument into a 'Banshee' model simply by modifying it with dual active-circuit preamps installed in the instrument. Another way to do this is to use a 'direct box' before the amp. (I've never experimented with this.)

Solution 3 -- Some effects, and especially multi-effects systems are prepared to accept guitar and bass inputs, and their output is a line-level (synth level) output which works nicely going into a keyboard amp.

I'm sure there is more to know about all this, but this is briefly what I've encountered so far. Not guaranteed to be completely correct in all particulars; I'm no electrical engineer nor mixologist.

But I hope some of it proves useful.

[BigDaddyPoo]

Traktor is absolutely correct about the signal levels. I used to play my stick trough the same amp you just bought, so I can say for a fact you will triple your volume with a preamp of some sort. I ran the melody side through a roland effects processor (GP-16) and the bass side was run through a Bellari tube preamp. I would strongly recomend this set up for the bass. You seem to like the sound of your tube guitar amp, so going with tubes on the bass side makes sense. The bellari is extremely warm...in fact too warm for recording vocals or just about anything else that would require a large diaphram condensor, but for bass its perfect.

I would also recomend a stereo compressor. Some don't like compressors since they take away some of your dynamic range, but on bass you can really push the compressor to get some thunderous results.

[GaryOpenhill]

I didnt know any of all of this when i first got my megatar. But i was so lucky i had a carvin probass amp lying around, 150 w, and as it turned out it is scary loud, even without any preamps, but very good warm sounding, no noice, and handles the higher freqeuncies very well. And a dead silent compressor in it too. I found an old advertisment (1994) for the amp, and as it turnes out it was sold as a bass/keyboard amp, so that explains why it works. They don't make it anymore.
The moral of this story is...i dunno.

[TheEclectic]

Good stuff, I sure that it this information will serve someone well in the future. It certainly has increased my understanding of using a keyboard amp with the Megatar.

I have some Art Tube Preamps that I use for my microphones for recording classical guitar - as I am temporarily out of funds for buying gear, I will give one of those a go and see how it works.

Thanks.

[boxguitarist]

OK, here's one New Year's resolution down the drain. I have played all of the Touch Guitars i've ever owned, 4 Sticks, 1 Vintage Warr, 1 ADG-10, 1 Santucci Treble Bass, 3 Box Guitars and 3 Megatars thru a cheapo Crate KX-160 Keyboard Amp's low-Z input and NEVER had a problem with the sound volume eminating from its 15" speaker, with the gain set only at about 10 o'clock, beyond that the Howell Police and/or a neighbor or two usually show up. The KX-160's controls are noisy, the sound quality is a wee bit above mediocre, and I don't care, I got more than I paid for. The amp's currently out of commission as i've severed the umbilical between the amp and the speaker cabinet so I have something to play Wiggy thru, when I get a dedicated Wiggy speaker cabinet i'll reverse the surgery. And, for the record, I no longer possess the first 7 instruments listed.

Lastly, I'm waiting for Ernie's report on his conversations with Stuart at NAMM..........................

[jamsire]

Originally posted by boxguitarist
Lastly, I'm waiting for Ernie's report on his conversations with Stuart at NAMM..........................

Just got in two hours ago - you just wait until my post comes!!

[Spaghetti]

I just came back from the local store, where I both tried my Krappy and a Vassilevsky on a roland KC-350.

Step one: plugging them directly into the amp yields a "good but not totally convincing" response, and the volume is LOW... having succesfully demonstrated the importance of correctly matching the impedances of the instrument and of the amp, I proceeded with

Step two: I plugged the instrument through a DBX-166a stereo compressor and WOW! The amp really packs a punch, even with a 1:1 ratio (no compression); its frequency response is quite flat, especially in comparison to my Fender Hot Rod Deville guitar amp...

I'd definitely recommend this kind of setup: a DBX stereo compressor (imo, the best quality/price ratio in the low-medium budget area) and a Roland KC 350 or 550, whatever you can afford (I'll buy mine as soon as I get a job...)